Two separate points, the first is that basic income somehow produces purpose and ‘activities meaningful for humanity’ in the absence of directly useful work, the second, to which he/you reverted in his last post, is that basic income is required for humans not to go extinct due to robots. But if Robot-AI will be hostile to humans and take over, money will be meaningless.
“Jeff Bezos’ Vision: 'A Trillion Humans in the Solar System”
We lost the technology for putting a man on the moon…(suggesting we never really did that) so I don’t think humans are going to manage to go as far as establishing self sustaining communities anywhere out of Earth.
We’d need to seek out moons with some ice on them, build giant domes heated by nuclear energy … try to grow some vegetables without dirt, in some way… what’s Bezos’ plan? He has only in 2025 got something into orbit. He is still very much short of NASA in the 1960s.
Why the need for a trillion humans leading utterly miserable lives?
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Every human’s life is useful to itself. It self-values, so what else is there? Misery is either a subjective experience or a falsely objectified presumption absent value-calculuses.
As for UBI, sure, why not, let’s all becomes serfs to the State Power and the AI Robotics Institutions for little scraps of living-means. Yay. That sure seems like a nice existence to me, we can all “do activities meaningful for humanity” in our little electrified shacks, taking our slavepills and pissing in the smarttoilet on time to ensure no interruption of our digital Bezos-credits UBI crypto deposits.
Idea:
An adult human that cannot sustain its own existence, cannot even SELFVALUE enough within the sufficient means of its own spheres of influence, sociality, family, skill, effort and hard work and accumulated knowledge-meaning to ensure its own existence somehow, in any way at all, and so relies upon the State to steal money from others to feed its own mouth, either 1) ought not to continue existing at all for being some kind of strange deformity of the species, or 2) …has already been pre-bred beforehand as a slave.
They’ll never institute universal basic income in any large meaningful way, for the capitalistic mindset it would just be more cost effective to let people die or to kill them off completely.
Of course a better way at addressing this problem would be to offer people financial economic opportunities to be productive within society rather than pay them to do nothing where the wages being paid are substantial enough that they’re able to have significant secure, prosperous, and happy livelihoods for themselves. But of course once again that comes to the cost effective nature of things where the capitalist class would find it cheaper to simply eliminate or exterminate lives rather than elevating them higher.
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Yes, real significant and living wages were a reality for a while in America’s past, for the middle class. This was ended for obvious reasons as the upper class could not tolerate that much wealth being in the hands of the people.
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UBI should be exactly 1500 American dollars per month given to every human on the planet.
If they can only afford the trailers, if they can only afford the apartments, the systemic change on land ownership policy is necessary, to escape the yoke of the landlords. In a matter of years I have seen rental prices double, because of the yoke of landlords and corporations.
Only the decadent or the enslaved require more than 1500 dollars per month for survival.
UBI might have to start with your 3000 per year since the world is poor and dysfunctional. A stepping stone merely, as 3000 per year is not enough for anyone in any first world nation to survive. If after Ai takes all the jobs and the UBI is still only 3000 per year, there is a very real danger of human extinction.
This seems to be a profound change of your stance. I remember that your posts were moderated before for how you articulated your perspective against UBI.
I’ve continued to follow the topic and until this day, the interest in the Netherlands seems to be near ‘zero’ (when Google Alerts broad ‘web-content’ coverage can be used as a measure). In the same time, the interest for, and adoption of, UBI in the US seems to explode, with literally 20+ new articles daily.
Last Google Alert for Netherlands: December 19th (10 days ago) with 3 messages covering Crypto-UBI on Marchall Islands (highly selective coverage such as only this Marchall Islands UBI and nothing about UBI in the Netherlands itself, as usual in these alerts, which I continue to find strange even after ~2 years of watching).
A Dutch politician did start to seriously propose to introduce UBI but a very low amount that is not sufficient for basic subsistence (about 1/3rd of what a person would need), which implies that young people would have an outlook on a half-baked solution that translates from their perspective into ‘no solution at all’ for their future when work is actually becoming obsolete and not even something to have considered and planned for in the first place, if they are smart. (since it would become a waste of time)
A child/youngster doesn’t want to work ‘half’. It wants to plan for, and dream about, their future. For these people it might be one foot stuck in an old world, with an outlook on a future in which this suffering ultimately was for nothing.
As communicated in this topic, my primary interest with regard UBI is philosophical advancement. When UBI provides in basic means (basic subsistence, such as the basic right to clean 
drinking water), people can actually dream about a new future.
Meanwhile in New York:
New York City is preparing to roll out a guaranteed income program that will provide $15,800 per resident.
Guaranteed income is coming to NYC in 2026 — here’s what it means
It translates to +/- $1,300 per month.
Elon Musk has been active in the global news about UBI in the past week:
Elon Musk says “universal high income” is on the way
That sounds uncharacteristic of me and not something I would say. Perhaps you’ve confused me for someone else. Or it is a hallucination, the human equivalent of AI hallucination.
One time I thought the Ai was hallucinating or producing slop, but then I re-read what the AI said again, and then realized it was a human hallucination and a flaw of my human neural network.
Just take what you can get. Progress doesn’t start perfect. AI hasn’t taken all the jobs so why would you expect a full UBI at the beginning?
They will kill everyone and completely decimate the entire global population before ever implementing UBI globally.
You must understand the nature of evil people that currently run this entire world.
UBI? Is this so you guys don’t have to get a job and work so you can sit and drink coffee and do philosophy all day on ILP?
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Let me get this right..
Capitalism has sucked so much out of society that now people just don’t have enough to spend anymore.
Growth is negatively affected and there doesn’t seem to be a solution as the cow has almost been milked dry.
UBI is floated as an idea, where governments would give some of the people’s money back to them, inciting growth again and further feeding the capitalist machine.
Corporations still give nothing back, but now there is a new injection of capital, which is the same capital, just rearranged slightly and put back into the pockets of consumers.
Aye, that will work just fine.
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I don’t know, they tend to pass all costs onto the government already, this isn’t much different.
Here in the UK people working in low paid jobs, even for big corps, have to have their income supplemented by the government just to survive. It proves that the government is 100% corporate captured, there is never any talk of simply requiring the fuckers to pay more / enough.
What a ridiculous time to live in.
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I am telling you friend, they’ll kill everybody if it means it is more cheaper and manageable on their end. They view all the lower classes of people under them as expendable human cattle. If problems become too much they’ll just cull huge segments of the population on the society human farm. For them everybody lives in a state of captivity under their direct control, people only exist at their own leisure or discretion.
That’s their mindset which is why earlier I said you guys really need to understand the mindset of the people that control this world, pure evil.
If you’re looking for empathy, compassion, ethics, or even morality with that group of people you’ll find absolutely none. Good luck.
I’d have more luck looking for fish in the dead sea. Maybe that’s what the AI thing is all about, replacement, but I really don’t see how AI could do my job, or most jobs to be honest.
If you ask me, those most at risk are the penny jugglers themselves, AI could do that job just fine..
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A.I. is just another bullshit diversion, they’re going to drag the entire planet into another world war.
Just watch and observe.
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If that’s the case, do you think it will be a “controlled and limited” war, or everything goes?
If it’s the latter, then we really are truly fucked..
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