Who is making more sense right now?
- Urwrongx1000
- Ichthus77
- I can see both sides.
Let’s don’t let this discussion die.
In one sense the whole thing started complete and nothing changes. Nevermind if this is a fractal & so you can’t trace back to a single point of origin—you’re not talking about the kalam cosmological argument, so it’s irrelevant.
In a moment-to-moment sense matter and energy are conserved (sustained). I don’t know enough to tell you with certainty if a “new/distinct” universe exists in each and every full moment (B Theory of time, every moment, past and future, is real and not just ideal) or if the same universe is sustained (A Theory of time) in only the current moment, leaving other moments, past and future, empty (ideal versus real).
If Einstein is right, no matter how you slice it up, for beings subject to time (Kant’s language), the whole timeline is real/full, not just now.
If they’re not, there is (real, not “just” ideal—for beings subject to time) only the moment we share, and (ALSO IF THEY’RE NOT) everything contacted in this moment “AS IF” it were from another moment is “only” contacting God’s mind (the “as if” is still ideal and “not yet” real).
And there’s no way you can’t say the same thing about the current moment, sans the “not yet”.
Either way, the moments are sustained (intentional) inexistence (existing in) God’s mind — but, all that is not in line with his will is for the purpose of contrast/destruction—a lesser form (privation) of being/existence that will not be sustained forever (granted this began complete and God doesn’t forget—forgive, yes—forget is phenomenological language). Since God can and does turn everything back to good, even the privation can be used for his purposes. Nothing is wasted… antagonism is required for growth.
The “change” (for beings subject to time) happens like a Linnaean taxonomy/dialectic (described by Hegel, if you allow for backward/away steps in the individual/community, but all of the times/movements are sustained in Time/immovable that is complete). Just like the Venn that describes God’s being (Trinity) is complete, whereas the Venn that describes our being (in his image) can undergo transformation.
He always sustains and sometimes intervenes with his own changes (for beings subject to time), but the whole thing/timeline is finished in his mind (at least ideal if A Theory and not sustained real-ideal B Theory). Nothing surprises him. (Oversimplification when applied to incarnation of the Son in time.)
Supplementary:
Can’t C theory make B theory an idea in God’s mind, and A theory is how God actualizes each moment?
How else is God going to know us before creation? The plan begins complete.
facebook.com/reasonablefait … 148897260/
But I have a feeling that because we are beings subject to time, there’s something about the physics and how it interacts with (exists in) God’s substance that we are just not going to wrap our heads around. I think it should not be overlooked that Dr. Craig acknowledges that God is not a being subject to time. That’s how he’s able to begin (or at least sustain) the universe from beyond it. I don’t understand why Dr. Craig doesn’t combine Liebniz’ cosmological argument with the B Theory. That’s why I think B Theory (or C Theory) is not too far-fetched, but if B Theory is the only thing that works with a fractal, I’m going with that. Obviously this is something I just feel and I could be wrong.
I know, I know… TL;DR.
Cycles repeat until you change something that you normally do. What do you normally do that repeats a cycle that you don’t want to repeat? Change that. Get it out of your reach. Remove antecedents. Replace it with better stuff. You don’t think you’re free to change that? Talk about it. There are people who might have some ideas about that. We’re not meant to sharpen ourselves all by ourselves…unless we have no other choice. But we do.
This discussion originated from here:
