This is an extract from the Wikipedia article explaining what AZ SB1070 is:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsVi2RqE7ek[/youtube]
Update from the AZ Republic–Apr, 30:
The Arizona House approved several new changes to Arizona's new immigration law. The changes still need final approval from the Senate before being passed along to the governor. If Gov. Jan Brewer supports them, they would go into effect at the same time the new law would.
The phrase "lawful contact" would be changed to "lawful stop, detention or arrest" to clarify that an officer would not need to question a crime victim or witness about their legal status.
I am of the view that illegal aliens are okay in general, under the present circumstances. But it appears that Arizona has borne a great burden in this regard. If we made it easier to become a legal resident, I would have no problem with this law. That may happen, on the Federal level. If it does, and the number of legal immigrants we allow in becomes more realistic, then I think this law is okay.
Heaven forbid that we actually enforce our laws. Oh no, anything but that, its the end of the world.
I wish they weren’t separate issues but they are. In addition to simple illegality, there’s the more serious problems of drug violence incursions (which has turned Phoenix into the kidnapping capital of the country), as well as terrorists and felons crossing into the US. We needed action from Washington now, but they will neither enforce the border nor increase the quotas. We waited too long as it is. This situation isn’t Arizona’s fault, but we get the resentment anyway, which is only going to jack up tensions even more. In spite of the absurd claims of racism, the hysterical, partisan and unfair rhetoric may well raise that specter.
Yes, as we’ve already heard from the mouths of prominent race warlords, if prison populations aren’t properly diverse (gender excepted of course), the laws against theft, murder, rape etc. are obviously racist.
all these right-pandering anti-illegal-immigration campaigns just smack of economic protectionism - which is pretty hypocritical considering they tend to originate with the conservative free market crowd . . .
the only reason any of it matters is because Americans don’t want to have to compete with a mass influx of cheap, quality laborers - that kind of free market is a little too free for most peoples’ taste.
How do you fit that in with my position and the positions of a lot of libertarian right that we vastly increase our quotas, as I’ve already proposed many times, some of them here? How long do YOU propose we keep our borders wide open? I hadn’t pegged you to be a supporter of illegals for the millions of cheap votes, which is what this is really about. Why do you think so many Republicans are so soft on immigration? They’re just trying to counter the mindless anti-anything-Republican strategy which works so often, playing to the everybody knows all Republicans are filthy rich but there aren’t any rich Democrats, especially in Congress. 
I need to infiltrate the next Uglypeoplefuckingup Anonymous (UA) meeting and check out the lame intercourse that goes on there. "Whatdya mean I can’t come in? Huh? Badges? I don’t need no stinking badges?
TPT -
Yeah, I agree. We should be able to manage immigration much better than this. Phoenix should not be the kidnapping capital of the world - and I think what a lot of people aren’t seeing is that it’s an emergency situation, and so even draconian measures are needed. If we had a sensible guest worker program, so that we could allow foreign workers as we need them and deny them entry when we don’t and also built the damn fence and kept out illegals, we’d go along way towards alleviating the problems in Arizona.
ugly -
We shouldn’t have to compete here in this country, given minimum wage laws. Again, a sensible guest worker program would allow foreign workers to take jobs that natives don’t want - and there are many of those. It’s just common sense to manage immigration. Much of this problem stems from the fact that our immigration laws have been just plain stupid. yes - it has allowed cheap labor in, but at the cost of a huge taxpayer subsidy. It’s not really cheap, in the end.
I think we could make the whole problem mostly dissapear if we just make it easy to become a citizen - we should be giving away citizenship like candy - not guarding it jealously - most of us never earned it anyway.
Laws like this pander to our worst impulses - i think we should let others participate and not punish them for trying. Physically i don’t care what they do to the border, dig a moat and fill it with venemous pirhanas or something, i don’t care - but we should be making it as easy as possible for people to come here and work.
is that an insult? i’ll admit i don’t get it . . .
I’m not saying immigration shouldn’t be managed - i just don’t think we should be managing it the way we are is all.
As for minimum wage, it’s a joke anyway - might as well do away with it. The wretched will stay wretched.
if we are going to champion a free market society we should be allowing everyone to compete without giving advantage to those who were simply lucky enough to be born here.
the problem is we’re scared, we can talk the talk of the land of opportunity, but we don’t trust Mexicans. Or Arabs. Or anyone else who speaks a funny language.
UPF -
To a point, I agree with this. The present system is ridiculous. I think a five-year guest worker status followed by a criminal review and maybe some work history should suffice. Put another way, come here, pay your taxes, don’t commit any heinous crimes, keep your front yard reasonably clean, and you’re a good neighbor, and so should be allowed to become a citizen, without no stinkin’ civics test.
Again, agreed.
There I disagree. This is tied up with taxation, including the earned income credit - many low-wage workers get money directly from the government in the form of the EIC. And SS tax - you can’t do away with the minimum wage unless you reform tax policy. If we went to the VAT system, replacing income tax, I’d be inclined to agree, however.
But then we would do away with anti-trust laws and all other consumer protections.
I’ve worked with illegals. There are parts of this country where whole industries would disappear or shrink to a small fraction of what they are now without recent immigrants. I think the solution is to make them legal, as you say. But Arizona is faced with stupidity on the Federal level, and is trying to cope, with a law that would be unnecessary if the Feds could get their act together.
I’m not sure what the VAT system is . . .
but it seems to me the minimum wage just sort of sits there and does nothing - it’s really not enough to live on in most parts of the country even in the states with higher than federal rate - they’re still slave wages . . .
i don’t see why - we can have open labor markets AND consumer protections - it’s not like walking and chewing gum or anything
see i agree about being faced with stupidity on a federal level but i think a law like this just compounds the problem - it doesn’t accomplish enough to justify all the divisiveness it causes. they’re essentially telling Arizona police officers that they should be on the lookout for Mexicans, while at the same time telling them that they shouldn’t racially profile - it’s retarded. all it really does is stigmatize illegals even more than the label of “illegal” already does.
I made an edit in my post and then in your quote of me, because it was such a bad typo that it made no sense. I meant to type “you can’t do away with the minimum…”
Value-added tax. A national sales tax, sort of, instead of income tax with all the payroll deductions.
Sure. But it’s not that important to the discussion at hand, I’m sure you’ll agree.
My point is that even a “free market” has regulation.
I see the downside, but I think the solution really is what we agree upon - if we had anything like a reasonable immigration policy to begin with, Arizonans (and they don’t all agree with this law) would have little justification to go to the parapets as they seemingly have. We need more foreign workers than we legally admit, so market forces supersede the law. Once you get into a black market situation, all hell can break loose, which it has. I think many Arizonans feel helpless and abandoned by their federal government. Again, I am generally pro-immigration. I just think we have to regulate it just as we do the flow of capital and goods. You can’t just land a boat from Europe on the beach and unload any iol’ cargo, and you aren’t legally allowed to sneak a million bucks in, either. I think the same should go for labor, particularly because labor comes with elderly relatives and babies, sometimes.
as long as the rich pay more than me, i’m all for it.
sure, but it’s still a bee in my bonnet
right, of course - i wasn’t championing anarchy or anything
It’s true - A) I’m not in Arizona so i don’t know what it’s like, and B) some regulation is necessary. But i still can’t help but find this law ill-conceived.
Presumably, they’d pay a lot more. Not only that, but you’d get a tax break just for putting money in a shoe box.
I have mixed feelings.
well how do you think the law will help, specifically?
Today, a sheriff’s deputy in Arizona was ambushed by a trafficker with an AK47. He’s going to live, but still…
I think it’s generally going to make Arizona a less desirable place for illegals, and for all the concomitant illegalities that surround them. The border in California is much better protected, so naturally the illegals moved east. I think the people of Arizona need some relief.
It’s not just people moving quietly in the night. They eat, sleep, piss, shit and dispose of a lot of trash on their way. Hundreds die. And if they don’t, and they get caught, they try again. And again.
It’s just gotten out of hand - and no, I don’t live there, either. But that’s what it looks like from here.
Will it move the problem to New Mexico? If it works, it might. But you can’t blame Arizonans for that.
quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/04000.html
The problem with this law is that 30% of Arizona residents are Hispanic or Latino, and the only common thread among the illegal immigrants is that they are also Hispanic or Latino. This writes into law conditions of differential treatment based on ethnicity or race that detrimentally effects a significant portion of the population.
Think there is something other than ethnicity that meets the criteria of “reasonable suspicion”? Like some sort of activity or action? Well, you still have the problem of a rich white person being able to perform the action without worrying about police inquires, while a poor Hispanic citizen would have to worry about such inquires when performing that same action.
You see, the problem with this law is not the way it deals with illegal immigrants, the problem with this law is that any way it is considered, its application will adversely and selectively effect one ethnicity.
Because 98% of illegals in Arizona ARE Latinos. Duh. It’s the same dumb argument that the US is discriminating against blacks because 80% (whatever) of the prison population is black. If we’re discriminating, isn’t Mexico also discriminating against Guatemalans, who they’re coming down a lot harder on that we are on the Mexicans. Can you spell hipócritos? What…a…crock.
Sitt - I do understand your point. And I do not support making life difficult for law-abiding citizens. And I am pro-immigrant, if that isn’t too vague. I don’t want to shut the doors - if people knew what that would mean to our economy, no one would want to shut the doors. But from everything I have read, Arizona is in a pickle. It’s perhaps a drastic move, but should they do nothing? What would be a better alternative at the state level, barring meaningful federal immigration law reform?