what i saw today

I saw two parents today. Their son was born handicapped mentally and physically. Their son was in a wheel chair. I tried not to feel pissed off. I let myself feel sorry for them a bit. I think if they had the power to cure their son they would. If he had the power to not be f-ed he would not want to be f-ed. So the three of them basically lack the power. Do they believe in an all powerful friend up in heaven? I didn’t ask them, but how can someone possibly believe in that shit?

Some would say:
Its a test: ~ one which consumes all their lives and doesn’t ever get better until death [heaven] perhaps.
God made the universe as it is, and doesn’t intervene.

The problem with omnipotence is that my penis is more handsome than gods face :evilfun: :sunglasses: :laughing: #-o

If I created a realm, I would need to keep updating it and repairing it.
Same with humanity. They need upgrades really badly.
Also a test is different than going through a bunch of useless suffering and lacking.

True for some religions, but the Abrahamics consider god perfect and hence his creation is somehow perfect. would updating remove our own efforts and worth ~ inventions, cures and discoveries ~ much of what makes us human?

Humans upgrade with each generation e.g. as with computers and other tech, I also think they are more aware of world problems. Crimes like rape, have gone down massively in the last hundred years [so I am informed], we think its getting worse when things are in the main getting better [for the first world at least].

True, it does seem fruitless. From the ‘end-game’ perspective it may seem the opposite? Maybe that kind of determined help and survival makes those involved better souls, camels - eye of needles etc., a donkey is a donkey. Suffering and giving without the expectation of receiving are higher virtues are they not?

 They may be, because of our children.  We want to appear to our children as helpful, hopeful, and faithful, so they/ us, can carry on and suffer through their own giving.  Otherwise we might as well shut the whole thing down.

obe

Indeed! …and that would be pointless IMHO. Thing is that we really can make most things better in the world [feed people, give them medicine etc.] such that living would be mostly good. I suppose that would then make the three in the op feel even worse? Then again they live in the west, in the third world they probably just die.

On a side note, sometimes I think nature is designed to just destroy anything unfit or unhealthy. The antelope needs only a twisted ankle and it will soon be devoured. That is how nature ‘ideally’ keeps appearances somewhat ‘Disney’ and removes evidence as quickly as it can. Nature may utilise reincarnation, and in that case wouldn’t it be better for such a ghastly life to be destroyed such that only the fit antelope may run in the trees? That the gene-pool is clear, and suffering is short!

  • I would hate that BTW, naturally to us such would be morally abhorrent. Just said it because philosophers should ask lesser questions IMHO.

I think the question of the “ all powerful friend up in heaven” is where change is happening – slowly. More and more people are getting disillusioned with the idea of a cosmic vending machine or that everything in creation is perfect in the way we have come to understand the word.

Our interpretation of things we see, like what you have opened with, is largely a question of what we see as normal. I have spoken with a “disabled Person” who said to me that once he realised that normal for him was different to what everybody else regarded as normal, he came around to actually enjoying his life, including the exchange with those people he is dependant upon for everyday things. It requires a confrontation though, which is what we mostly shy away from. Without the confrontation with reality as it is experienced, we drift off in an imaginary perfect world, where everything is how we think it should be – but which has no place in reality.

The fact that life does expect us to cope with imperfections is quite clear, however, we seem to be preoccupied with our phantasies, which is all very well when we have the technological possibilities but naked in the bush things are different, and there that child would probably no longer be alive. Question is, whether the child would rather not live than live the life it has?

I haven’t seen either one …THANK GOD!

Lol

hope folks excuse my jesting on such a serious topic, but I jest because I am sometimes aghast at the vulgarity and immorality of the world. I cannot find a solution and so I piss on god.

Sorry god ~ if you exist, but if you do, most of us are better people than you.

Off Topic!

Isn’t the topic :

“how can someone possibly believe in that shit?”

What do you know of the child’s world? Did you talk to him and if so what did he say about it? That would be relevant to the discussion. Or maybe he doesn’t talk. What was his affect like? Did he seem to be happy? Even dogs communicate their feelings very well without speaking human language. The severely intellectually disabled often feel deeply and can express their feelings eloquently nonverbally. Did you notice? Or were you projecting your own feeling that he was f-ed onto him?

Seems you are judging the situation entirely from your own POV without really getting inside the son’s or parents heads or hearts. You have to suppose what they think about their friend in heaven apparently because you don’t know. If you did discuss it with them you might find their perspective if profounder than yours because of their experience. Or maybe not. Who knows? Not me, and apparently not you either.

Dan they might say that since that which doesn’t kill you makes you stronger, that making these people have these troubles was actually to their benefit. Then they’d be like, “yeah god hooked em up they’re so strong now”. Or something like that.

And besides to be equally relevant and correct as your equivocation, my vagina is better looking than Amorphos cock. :-"

H & H

Wow, firstly I didn’t know you were a female [and still don’t lol], secondly there should be a medical term for pussy ~ the whole thing. I expect virtually any ladies labia, vulva and clitoris look better than any penis, but possibly not the vagina itself. This also means that the feminine sex is entirely or mostly superior to god ~ being more potent.

…so now its all your fault! :laughing:

Sorry for the off-topic again bob, but conversations do that. Admittedly its gone a bit far now, but sometimes going to far arrives at all manner of conclusions [as above lol].

I am not a woman. That was kinda the point. His point was, meh, it wasn’t that big or clever a point, you’ll figure it out the inanity. :slight_smile:

Vagina is a medical term.

The beauty of discussion sometimes the silliest points provoke the most interesting of arguments. In this case I am not betting on it but that renders the point no less relevant.

I can however not bear to comment on the OP, in as much as the whole subject of some peoples lives being horrible being just how badly humans were designed, if by God he’s worse than a blind watchmaker, if there is a point, it’s get better tools when you are making shit and buy some decent glasses or make some eyes. A bad workman always blames his tools, there is no excuse for what God did, unless he didn’t do it and it was evolution, then it makes sense, things tend to work badly if there’s no designer, just like over 4 billion years half assed trillions of attempts that failed ultimately worked, cause sticking square pegs in round holes will eventually make the hole square. Creationists are mental. :smiley:

And you, of course, are a connoisseur of fine design that qualifies you to judge the creation or the universe or whatever. You get the final word on it, right? Too bad you didn’t come around until the post-production phase. Then the creator was listening to Sophia, whom we now find out was giving less than hellandhighwater sage advice.

My conclusion? You are doing everything to disturb discussion, and as far as I can tell, you have no contribution to make. Boring!!!

H & H

I don’t think there is an argument against evolution, but one could say that in order to arrive at omega, one has to traverse the entire span of changes [alphabet] necessary to arrive at that.
If a creator just said abracadabra and we were here right now with no background nor history ~ everything already written, I would feel aggrieved that my personality is not ‘me’ -so to speak. I would have had no say in the making of who I am, even if personalities are somewhat transient and superficial.

Now I have two ‘god’s’ in my mind; the one we observe in nature [his creation or part of it], which would quickly destroy the disabled and unfit ~ revealing their suffering and those of the carers. Then the god which could not conceive of such a thing?

As human we lean more to the latter don’t we? Is God not human?

So is there something intrinsic in humanity [or greater intelligence generally], which relates to the God above nature in some essence of the creation [perhaps ongoing]?

Some part of us abhors nature for its harshness etc., we try to be different to it, and yet there is no reason why we should even think like that ~ unless there is something about reality and higher intelligence to wit our humanity derives.

What are you talking about dude?