what's wrong with prostitution, pornography, casual sex?

[Tab]

The whole “casual” bit too. Let’s have “jeans and no tie” sex. Let’s have “beans on toast” sex. Let’s have drunken, half-remembered, queasy, not talk much in the morning sex. Let’s just have sex so we can say to everyone “I had sex” afterwards, smirk internally at the dweedoids who didn’t, and feel slightly better about our crappy lives, because no matter how small, unfulfilling and stunted they may be, however ill they may fit the fine neon dreams we were sold by MTV and Nichelodeon and our over-doting parents when we were teens, at least we had sex. Which is something.

But that’s okay because, hang on, sex is the most important thing in the world. It must be. It must be because we are told it is via every media outlet there is. Not meaningful sex, not committed sex, but casual sex. Food without the calories sex. Have your sex and eat it again tomorrow sex. Sex. Sex not for your sake, not for her sake but for sex’s sake. For the sake of not feeling like a total fucking loser sheep production line fuckwad.

I suspect that is the sex we are talking about. And you’re right Faust. It’s exactly like opium, except it’s better, because one hit takes two people out.

Hey kids - Don’t get angry, get fucked up, get fucked.

[realunoriginal]

@Tab

The whole “casual” bit too. Let’s have “jeans and no tie” sex. Let’s have “beans on toast” sex. Let’s have drunken, half-remembered, queasy, not talk much in the morning sex. Let’s just have sex so we can say to everyone “I had sex” afterwards, smirk internally at the dweedoids who didn’t, and feel slightly better about our crappy lives, because no matter how small, unfulfilling and stunted they may be, however ill they may fit the fine neon dreams we were sold by MTV and Nichelodeon and our over-doting parents when we were teens, at least we had sex. Which is something.

But that’s okay because, hang on, sex is the most important thing in the world. It must be. It must be because we are told it is via every media outlet there is. Not meaningful sex, not committed sex, but casual sex. Food without the calories sex. Have your sex and eat it again tomorrow sex. Sex. Sex not for your sake, not for her sake but for sex’s sake. For the sake of not feeling like a total fucking loser sheep production line fuckwad.

I suspect that is the sex we are talking about. And you’re right Faust. It’s exactly like opium, except it’s better, one hit takes two people out.

Hey kids - Don’t get angry, get fucked up, get fucked.

Wonderful. A masterpiece. =D>

[Tab]

Ask not what sex can do for you, but what you can do for sex.

[Phoebus]

I personally have nothing wrong with any of the listed things in theory. In theory, what consenting, well balanced adults do with their own free time and with one another is their own responsibility, up to a point.

But that’s theory and rarely works that way in practise. I have no problem with prostitution, as long as they’re not forced into selling the only thing they have left when poverty has taken everything else, or they do it for fear of the barrel of a gun. I have no problem with pornography, as long as the people involved don’t end up feeling degraded, used up and spat out, just to survive. I have no problem with casual sex, as long as it’s not a teenager who doesn’t understand how to do it safely, as long as it’s not born out of mental fragility from previous damaged relationships, as long as it leaves you free of emotional scars.

[Impenitent]

all the wankers went went blind so now they have to spread stds…

communal cures for communal disease cost select members of the community too much when the communal causes can be easily eliminated…

you expect others to pay for your indiscretions?

-Imp

[Fabiano]

I don’t think there’s something inherently wrong with these things.

It’s just that there must be limits. Sex is so over-rated today that it has become disgusting. Children are over-exposed to it too, and it’s not natural for children to be interested in sex. However, our modern society is much more ‘open-minded’ about it than it was before, and I consider this ‘open-mindedness’ a type of moral progress.

There is ONE thing that must be noticed about pornography though, and this is not a pseudo-moralist complaint: pornography represents the power of men over women. As far as I can see, pornography is a misogynist industry.

[Radiohead629]

@Fabiano

I don’t think there’s something inherently wrong with these things.

It’s just that there must be limits. Sex is so over-rated today that it has become disgusting. Children are over-exposed to it too, and it’s not natural for children to be interested in sex. However, our modern society is much more ‘open-minded’ about it than it was before, and I consider this ‘open-mindedness’ a type of moral progress.

There is ONE thing that must be noticed about pornography though, and this is not a pseudo-moralist complaint: pornography represents the power of men over women. As far as I can see, pornography is a misogynist industry.

Sex isn’t overrated. Sex is one of the best things one can do with one’s time.

[aporia]

Tab, Fabiano, et al. I like your responses. There’s nothing wrong with all these activities, but they do have plenty of risks. More importantly, it hurts our long term development and fulfillment to idolize them and make them priority #1 when so many other things matter more. To swim against the stream is hard because all our pop culture pushes sex so forcefully. It’s a distraction we have to rise above, even if we are okay with enjoying it in moderation.

That’s the biggest problem. Americans have a tough time enjoying anything in moderation. Sex, food, entertainment… we overdo everything we like.

[Radiohead629]

@aporia

Tab, Fabiano, et al. I like your responses. There’s nothing wrong with all these activities, but they do have plenty of risks. More importantly, it hurts our long term development and fulfillment to idolize them and make them priority #1 when so many other things matter more. To swim against the stream is hard because all our pop culture pushes sex so forcefully. It’s a distraction we have to rise above, even if we are okay with enjoying it in moderation.

That’s the biggest problem. Americans have a tough time enjoying anything in moderation. Sex, food, entertainment… we overdo everything we like.

What do you think are better pastimes?

[Nah]

Prostitution is wrong according to laws of some countries.
Some types of pornography is legally wrong in many countries.
Casual sex can be legally wrong, too.
Even married couple enjoying anal sex can be legally wrong in some states.
I guess law makers are sexually perverted and needed to make them illegal to keep themselves from committing these crimes.

Also, these can be wrong by religious and/or regional moral standard.
Probably moral makers/keepers are also too perverted.

Other than that, from public health viewpoint, prostitution and casual sex can be seen wrong or at least risky for STD.
I guess pornography is (nearly) totally safe and thus RIGHT in this perspective.

Probably there are some other common perspectives that judge sex related things.

If we subscribe to one of these perspective, then things can be evaluated/judged.
Without judgmental perspectives, there are no wrong/right in anything itself.

[Radiohead629]

@Nah

If we subscribe to one of these perspective, then things can be evaluated/judged.
Without judgmental perspectives, there are no wrong/right in anything itself.

It’s rational to consider something wrong if it causes great pain. Of course, casual sex in itself does not do that, so…

[Liteninbolt]

@Impenitent

all the wankers went went blind so now they have to spread stds…

communal cures for communal disease cost select members of the community too much when the communal causes can be easily eliminated…

you expect others to pay for your indiscretions?

-Imp

I certainly don’t want to be responsible for people who don’t use common sense. If they need some help getting on their feet yes, but not pay for the results of their sexual practices.

[Impenitent]

getting on their feet? hah! no, they had fun sex and now you have to pay for the aids et.al. treatments that johnny needs for the rest of his life…

“I don’t want my daughter punished with a baby!!!”

the messiah has spoken!

-Imp

[Nah]

@Radiohead629

@Nah

If we subscribe to one of these perspective, then things can be evaluated/judged.
Without judgmental perspectives, there are no wrong/right in anything itself.

It’s rational to consider something wrong if it causes great pain.

I don’t agree with this.
Maybe it’s probably rational to consider something to be potentially wrong (in the sense of “damaging”) for the physical body if it causes great pain.

Of course, casual sex in itself does not do that, so…

Well, I’m not so sure.
I think there are many kinds of people who may practice unimaginable varieties of “casual sex”.

[aporia]

What do you think are better pastimes?

They’re great. It’s just that sometimes you need to work for a cause, or stand up for what’s right, or care for another human being. There’s a time and place for everything. Sex and food and music are great but excess will stunt your growth in other directions.

[matty]

@Faust

I’ll go along with realun this far - most people sell their entire lives out for a pension and good health insurance. Your average hooker gives up a lot less of herself.

Germaine Greer argued this, too - didn’t work out so well for her…

[Liteninbolt]

getting on their feet?

Well Imp, what I meant by that is if they are financially strapped and want to be a productive citizen again, I don’t mind them receiving monetary help from welfare etc. with the notion they will look for work as soon as possible. Not anything to do with their sexual practices then wanting an abortion or medical treatment for std’s.

[Twiffy]

We should probably stop saying meaningless things like “sex isn’t inherently bad”. Very few things are inherently bad. Killing is not inherently bad. It’s USUALLY bad, but it can be done in morally good ways.

Of course sex isn’t inherently bad. Hopefully no one was ever asserting it was. The question is, under what circumstances is it good, and under what circumstances bad? We’ve been addressing that, but it just confuses the issue to throw in “sex isn’t inherently bad” as if that means something.

Also, that comment about the hooker giving up far less of herself is a baseline, not an accurate generalization. That is, one can imagine that a hooker in the best of circumstances will have a much better life than the poor sod who sells his life for a pension etc. However, the reality of being a hooker is much, much worse. The average hooker is stupid, abused, constantly in physical danger, sickly, probably has several STDs, and overall is a miserable wreck of a human being. There are the legal hookers in Nevada who take home 6 figures a year and get to choose their own clients, work 10 hours a week, that sort of thing. THAT lifestyle is clearly pretty sweet, as long as you’re the sort of girl who can do that without psychological scarring (and the pay is high precisely because there aren’t too many [attractive] girls who can).

Also, what are better pastimes than sex?? Wow, that reminds me of the trite yet accurate Metallica quote, “boredom sets into the boring mind”. Sex is very enjoyable, but it’s visceral; I enjoy sex on a periodic basis, and some days it’s nice to not do anything but have sex several times, get delivered food, and watch a few movies in between. But if I did that consistently, I’d be a pitiful waste of life. I’m glad that sex is something on the side that I enjoy, like good food and movies, and not a defining feature of my personality. I do a lot of things that are real activities - writing, photography, nature-y stuff, math, etc. - and those, in terms of pastimes, are far superior in that they make me a better person, and the world a better place, which sex - while very enjoyable - doesn’t. These other pastimes are less viscerally enjoyable than sex – but they are more important.

[Radiohead629]

@aporia

What do you think are better pastimes?

They’re great. It’s just that sometimes you need to work for a cause, or stand up for what’s right, or care for another human being. There’s a time and place for everything. Sex and food and music are great but excess will stunt your growth in other directions.

Yes, I agree. Similarly, devoting your whole life to a cause and completely forsaking pleasure is equally bad, for you lose out on a lot of what actually makes living life so great.

[Radiohead629]

@Twiffy

Also, what are better pastimes than sex?? Wow, that reminds me of the trite yet accurate Metallica quote, “boredom sets into the boring mind”. Sex is very enjoyable, but it’s visceral; I enjoy sex on a periodic basis, and some days it’s nice to not do anything but have sex several times, get delivered food, and watch a few movies in between. But if I did that consistently, I’d be a pitiful waste of life. I’m glad that sex is something on the side that I enjoy, like good food and movies, and not a defining feature of my personality. I do a lot of things that are real activities - writing, photography, nature-y stuff, math, etc. - and those, in terms of pastimes, are far superior in that they make me a better person, and the world a better place, which sex - while very enjoyable - doesn’t. These other pastimes are less viscerally enjoyable than sex – but they are more important.

I don’t think those other things necessarily make the world a better place than the happiness that good sex creates does. Plenty of writing does great damage after all, such as Mein Kampf, for example. Math is good but our extraordinary skill at applied mathematics has led to the destruction of the environment, etc. photography can be used as propaganda, etc.