If human hatred didn’t exist would suffering still exist and if so why what would be the examples ?
Seriously?
Humans are mortal creatures which experience all sorts of suffering which has nothing to do with human hatred, from earthquakes to cancer.
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Very often we hurt and are getting hurt by people that we love, we are just messy and imperfect creatures, but we are evolving, so- work on progress.
Well humans aren’t perfect and that’s not good enough humans should be perfect now.
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Is it possible to be perfect? What would that even mean?
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It would mean never failing anything or doing evil to other humans.
yes it would
and if it wouldnt, then it would become the reason and starting point of the next complete collapse.
Mouse utopia experiment
Problem with “Mouse utopia experiment” as far as I remember was in a limited available space- in a natural environment some mouses would become dominant and others would leave and start new colonies and in this experiment they could not do that so it became a battle for survival which then cascaded into complete collapse of their society.
Don’t think that would happen in the human society, although there were similar cases in history- for example in Scandinavia natural disasters caused a crops failure for a few years and scarcity that led to collapse of society and pillage all sorts of violence and eventually led to viking age.
Yeah there have been many strawman criticisms of the experiment because it was too popular for a little while, but if you think about it for two seconds, the same issues remain.
Housing is limited for people too. You have cities, we are clustered together, privacy is nil, group tracking is nil…
There are valid criticisms of course, but if you just look at it from a trajectory perspective… its pretty much the same.
In most belief systems, yes. You would still have death, injuries, illnesses, as some examples.
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There is a difference between God Given Rights, and The Rights of Man. God Given Rights gave deference to God. The Rights of Man, in the French Revolution, was man worshiping himself. The French Revolution and the Rights of Man lead to The Terror…and decades of French loss of prestige, lost wars, and unstable governments. Someone believing they were “Good,” outside of God, he may have been evil, and he needed to prove how good he was to others, or else. Dishonorable people tend to be totalitarian.
God’s Plan is The Kingdom of God. Every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess. The Kingdom of God is a state where men no longer hate each other.
If suffering is the “what” in “no matter what” …
Pick one:
- I hate you no matter what.
- I love you no matter what.
Would #2 even mean anything if “zero suffering” was the “what”? No. Not even for children who have never suffered or empathized with suffering—if one even exists.
You don’t have to wait a whole lifetime to experience love “no matter what”. Just do it. Every particular moment.
See the problem with God given “anything” is that god does not enforce anything.
God can hand down his supposed rules and tablets to his supposed children and followers, but god does not enforce any of those rules.
Do you know who enforces those rules?
Man does.
So now you end up with a system where God is a convenient excuse and bs for mankind to game the system with and enforce their own will with the excuse that is God.
I always found religions to be a wonderful solution to the age old problem of “who are you to enforce your rules over me, you are human the same way i am”.
The hack is profound. “I am human the same way you are, i have no right to make rules of any kind for you, or tell you how to live your life… but… you see… now here is this imaginary bs sky daddy i made up and he is the owner of this reality, so im very sorry but his word is law and im enforcing his law, so you gonna submit to me or im killing your ass, and im gonna portray myself as just, good and triumphant over the evil that is you, who rejected divine law”.
If i had to work with the assumption that “God” exists, then there is a very inconvenient truth to be had here: Any action committed in god’s name or any of his rules, is the highest form of blasphemy in existence.
These are your two choices:
God does not exist and is but a convenient excuse for certain people to enact unquestionable law over others
OR
God does exist and he does not enforce his own rules, meaning you taking up that mantle or even referring to those rules, makes you blasphemer of the highest grade
Funny thing is. Im agnostic. I do not claim that a god entity cannot exist. We simply do not know or have the evidence to determine that.
But the way people are using God to justify anything… thats just pissing me off.
You have 2 choices, and quite ironically neither of them permit you to use God as anything. Not as a reference. Not as law. Not as cudgel to enact your own will with.
The god argument is logically inert. It should never be bought up as an argument for anything.
…might wanna read the Bible.
Once the final poop hits the final fan, you’ll wish you hadn’t said that, maybe.
God’s Judgement of War, Famine, and Plague is a particular thing.
God’s Judgment of Nations is on a scale of objective righteousness to objective wickedness. Kings and governments rule at God’s pleasure. It all works in particular ways.
God has liked to give authority to man. God gave authority on Earth to Adam. Adam lost authority in original sin. In a Catholic or Orthodox understanding, authority was delegated to Peter. Satan and demons attack people in authority. How was authority being wielded? Eastern Rome became a Christian Empire. They did something wrong. We can tell because the Romans experienced God’s Judgement of War, Famine, and Plague, and certain Holy Sees, like the See of Antioch and the See of Alexandria, became insignificant and never bounced back. They did something wrong.
God gave authority to man like The Parable of the Tenant Farmers. (Luke 20:9-19) A Tenant Farmer was a teacher of religious law. That may be like Harvard starting out as a religious institution, and now being “Other.” As teachers, they are still responsible for their fruit. Given great catastrophe in the US, the teachers may be responsible.
Did, and now lets get to the real world. Where do you see the ten commandments being enforced divine powers?
So claims man.
The reality of the question is however that god does not need to relegate it’s authority to anyone or anything, especially not to an incompetent executor of his laws such as man, to enact hell in his name.
Even a being alone in the universe would experience suffering
“This is what the Lord says to his anointed,
to Cyrus, whose right hand I take hold of
to subdue nations before him
and to strip kings of their armor,
to open doors before him
so that gates will not be shut:
2 I will go before you
and will level the mountains[a];
I will break down gates of bronze
and cut through bars of iron.
3 I will give you hidden treasures,
riches stored in secret places,
so that you may know that I am the Lord,
the God of Israel, who summons you by name. (Isaiah 45:1-3)
Cyrus the Great of Persia was prophesied about 180 years or so prior to.
Cyrus was a Conqueror coming with three stressors of War, Famine, and Plague.
- God used Assyria to bring his Judgement on Israel.
- God used Babylon to bring his Judgement on Judah.
- God used Cyrus to bring his Judgement on Babylon.
God never stopped working in the world. God didn’t change. God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.
Especially if they were a social being. Even the best of days would be very hard.
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So god made a bunch of people commit one of the worst sins in existence, cause he was too lazy to crack a volcano, an earthquake, a meteor, a tsunami or just snap his fingers an erase the place?
Funny how God is like your average government. “My child, murder is a sin, a crime against the creator and the extinction of human agency, THE most immoral thing you can commit for which i sent the first dude into exile, w/e point is: you too will receive capital punishment if not outright execution for it and rot in hell for all eternity”
(…)
“Unless i tell you to kill. Then its not only okay, but your duty to do so. High five”
It starts to get funny once God himself start to engage in moral relativism.
You know for a fact that you are 72 colors of fucked then lol