Your are that. Education and intellectualism.

Nietzsche dwelled in how education, intellectualism and indeed how all knowledge is a extension of the will to power.

I agree with the man.

Yet when the standardized education status quo who acts as the representative of the establish academia describes men under classifications, standards, categories, labels and timeless fixations, why exactly should the common man or any man for that matter accept their declarations of themselves in existence.

When standardized education says you are that, why must any man accept their limitations of his own existence?

The man could say, " I know who I am and I don’t need your classifications in telling me what I am."

The man in the face of their institutions could reject their forced limitations on his person by that of classifications and categorizations.

The myth of equality reveals itself in the educational institution because it only thrives on division and legalized segragation.

Society speaks of the myth of equality yet the educational facilities which acts as it’s instrumentation is the very tool of dividing and segragating people within it inequally.

thats tough point joker for I agree with you but … this is were individualism breaks that

because in this world now more than ever individualism can be expressed and put out there more than ever . just have your own web site for example

you shouldn’t and many ground breaking individuals have ignored what " they say " in many , many different field of endeavour and succeed

and have

and do , all the time

fundamentally I think equality is more about , no matter what part of society you come from , rich or poor , black or white and anybody in between you can make it   

I don’t think so at all

show this to be true

I am, rare as it may be, inclined to agree with you, but I dont think that telling someone who they are is the intention of these classifications but rather to inform other people of who you are, which is obviously a far from perfect system.

The education system would lead anyone who sees my CV to assume that I am of average intellegance or that when I was in school I was lazy, when the fact of the matter is that I have trouble proving myself acedemically. This is due to a poor writing speed and presentation of my written work, due to my dyslexia (ans maybe a little lazyness thrown in).

In the working world, the ability to do exams is in my oppinion somewhat limmited. I have been promoted far faster than someone who on paper is my accedemic superior.

Luckily I think that when entering work, this oppinion of “who is better” is (to a degree at least) changed. It becomes more about personal qualities. However getting a job that you deserve is still tricky, if you cannot prove how well you work in the first place. The education system can in alot of cases mean that someone must start lower down than they should. However if you deserve a better position, once you are in you can always work up and still get what you deserve. Richard Branson had no qualifications when he left school, and though people have varying oppinions of the man, its hard to deny that he has a rather good business head on him. I dont think that people judge him on his education anymore.

A good point.
However though I am not opposed to change I am unable to provide a better system than the one we currently have. Its easy to say something doesnt work as it should. Its alot harder to think of a better way forward. What do you suggest we have in place of the current education system?

What is standardized intellectual educational institutions in a nut shell?

They are instrumentations used to force identity value statuses, categorizations, and classifications on people unwillingly which is then judged through prejudicial means by society, the state and the government on whether people shall live healthy or miserable condemned lives by segragating people into seperation of classes.

Educational institution: You need to know A, 1, and -2 in order to live a productive life in society.

Common man: I don’t know A, 1, or -2 in order to live your ideal of what you think a productive life is in contrast to my own.

Educational institution: Well since you don’t know A,1 or -2 I guess you will have to be forced to be content with a meager lifestyle.

Common man: Why?

Educational institution along with society: ( No answer.)

I don’t think so at all

show this to be true


The internet plays a small role in the world. Those with the guns and ivory towers control everything.

While I agree with you that I or anybody else shouldn’t you and me both know what happens with individuals who defy the collective’s demands. Let’s not fool ourselves or pretend this world is fair.

Who? Where? How?

Oh please. :unamused: You know as well as I do that not everybody makes it. Come on now… [-X

Do you really need me to show you?

But by having such a elaborate symbolic description of who someone is it leaves a mark which only leads to judgement, division, and seperation.

Everyone keeps telling me that educational systems represent some glorious enlightenment or emancipation but from where I am looking it just represents bigotry and complete control over people’s lives.

Which again leads to judgement, division and seperation of people into social classes where educational institutions do not liberate people but instead actually support state sponsered oppression.

Educational institution: You are that.

Common man: I don’t want to be that.

Educational institution: Too bad, now get back in line of everyone else.

Not where I am from. It definately hasn’t changed for me here.

And I bet it hasn’t changed for millions of people too all around the world in industrialized societies who revolve around specialization.

How does anyone outside myself know exactly what I deserve?

That just sounds silly to me and our intellectual system perpetuates this absurdity too.

What is their basis? What is their foundation? What is their measuring device? Why should I care? :laughing:

I have a problem with words like deserve, earn,ought, should, and must as you can tell especially with entities or groups who’s sole purpose is controlling others for their own selfish benefit in contrast to my own.

I din’nt say that they did, infact this is exaclty what I was talking about. You can still acheive what you think you deserve by hard work (and a lot of luck)

Should as in what you think/know you are capable of

There is no guarantee however especially if you work with others outside of yourself.

The problem is that noone outside of myself cares what I think about myself.

People only care about what the market and institutions define me as.

Your not putting yourself accross well enough then.

Or maybe I just need to be a little more violent for others to listen to me…

Maybe I haven’t been violent enough.


The internet plays a small role in the world. Those with the guns and ivory towers control everything.

sure but do we then give up our individuality because of the " collective’s demands " ? I think not

the Universe is not fair , let alone the world .

we just have to make more fair by our will

by perseverance

of course not everybody makes it but some do because of the will of perseverance


Very possibly in your case, as you seem quite a violent person. Being more violent would cirtainly put accross the point that you are violent. For someone who is not violent however this would not be helpfull. Being assertive is the key, violence is a form of assertivness. However this doesnt help people who are not assertive, they will have to hope that they are accedemic enough for the system to put across their skills for them, if however this is not the case, they are screwed.

Definately not a perfect system, but I am curious Joker what you propose we do about it, if we could. I cannot think of something better.

I propose nothing. I am against institutionalism.

I have no desire to offer a alternative institution to the one that we have now.

I’ve just got started. When people see my real violence they won’t have the chance to say anything.

A man who has nothing to lose can become almost invicible.

Then there is no point in raising an argument in the first place.

Actually its the other way around. A man with nothing to loose is at his most vulnerable as they are more likely to put themselves in harms way and so statistically moore likely to die, dont think yourself more powerfull than the system Joker. It’s an evolutionarry fact of the social animal, the greater the number the greater the chance of survival. The most invincible man is he who has everything to loose, as he will use caution.

Your problems with society are the same as my own, but i will try to change them so that they are more likely to work. Direct opposition is like throwing a pepple at a wall. A wise man would work away from the inside of the foundation if he wants the barriers of injustice to fall. A lengthier process, but one more likely to work

Words…mere words.

In my rejection of somthing and through my obervation of things I will raise whatever I want in discussion.

Words…mere words.

Words you are unable to refute.

Oh and my above post said pepple, hehe should have been pebble

I could refute it if I wanted to but I am un-interested in your diatribe presently…

Lol if you say so.

Any fool can critisise something, but it takes a truely wise man to provide a viable alternative.


Fabulous argument Joker, one of your best I feel :wink: