Think about it

Half-formed posts, inchoate philosophies, and the germs of deep thought.

Re: Think about it

Postby Chakra Superstar » Mon Dec 28, 2015 8:58 pm

Turd Ferguson wrote:Honestly, if you saw a otherwise healthy chicken, just lacked a head, would you have qualms eating it? Would you have a "gratitude ritual" for something without a head, unable to hear you, much less the impossibility to understand you, because it has no brain? Whats the point, it's a mobile cucumber, stab and eat it.

If a healthy dog had a similar accident to what befell poor Mike the Chicken, would you cook it up? Why not? It wouldn’t have a brain. It’d just be a mobile cabbage with fur so, stab it and eat it.

:animals-chickencatch:
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Re: Think about it

Postby mafdet » Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:42 am

And to think I once believed in a God who gives a damn. What a fool I was.

PLEASE PRAY FOR THE CHICKENS

And if there is no god to raise a stand for the farm animals, who will stand for them? How about you homo sapiens? No, you'll watch the video, and then go to the grocery store and buy your New Year's turkey. But think about this homo sapiens: If someday you realize that you yourselves are just rats in a cage, who will stand for you?

PLEASE PRAY FOR THE HOMO SAPIENS
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Re: Think about it

Postby The Golden Turd » Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:15 am

I don't eat dog period Chakra. Its a carnivore.
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Re: Think about it

Postby gib » Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:40 am

Good rule of thumb: Whatever you think is OK to do to animals, it should be OK to do to you (you're an animal).

Now does this apply to eating you?
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In fact, the idea that there's more differences between groups than there is between individuals is actually the fundamental racist idea.
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Here's a good rule of thumb for politics--attribute everything to stupidity unless you can prove malice.
- Ben Shapiro

right outta high school i tried to get a job as a proctologist but i couldn't find an opening.
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Ahh... gib, zombie universes are so last year! I’m doing hyper dimensional mirror realities now.
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Re: Think about it

Postby mafdet » Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:07 pm

gib wrote:Good rule of thumb: Whatever you think is OK to do to animals, it should be OK to do to you (you're an animal).

Now does this apply to eating you?


I think that was one of the premises behind the movie The Matrix. It's OK for us homo sapiens ("wise men") to put a biological organism in a cage for its entire existence, until it is sufficiently fattened to be slaughtered. So what does happen when a more advanced form of life comes along and decides that the only thing homo sapiens are really good for is food? Will we be able to speak to this more advanced intelligence about things like the ethical treatment of animals? Or if this more advanced intelligence is a product of our own creation, will it also adopt our style of morality: "Ethics is something you pay lip service to, but in the real world you just do whatever is most convenient. Or maybe if we can design an intelligence capable of seeing through all the hypocrisy and twisted logic of humans, it will be hard for homo sapien, "wise man" to convince this intelligence that he too is an intelligent life form, worthy of the respect that he doesn't give to non-intelligent beings.
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Re: Think about it

Postby zinnat » Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:32 pm

Kriswest wrote:Zinnat, Would you like it if someone off the streets put your underage kid's mental health at stake by showing them things they were not prepared to see? If they did it without your knowledge?


No, absolutely not. Not only that, I would not like any such person watching it who is not concerned with all this in one way or other. I think that vid has the capacity to disturb grownups also.

But, as I asked in my last post, what is your suggestion for preventing people from seeing that vid in the modern era of free speech and expression?

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Re: Think about it

Postby zinnat » Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:44 pm

gib wrote:This video pisses me off. It's worse than Hitler's concentration camps. Yet at the time, I'm not the least bit surprised, and in fact I would be surprised if this turned out to be the exception to the rule.

I have a saying that if it can be done, it will be done. This is a rule of thumb that applies to all life. If corruption, cruelty, and butchery can happen, and it is profitable to do so, it will happen. There is nothing inherent to mankind, or any animal, as a species that says doing X is off limits. If X is considered by and large to be an unthinkably immoral act, there is nothing stopping life from breeding a strain from its own bloodlines to have no qualms about doing X if X were a viable means of survival and prosperity. Life is like water being poured into a maze. It will flow down any possible avenue it can find. There is no such thing as an avenue too "bad" or "immoral" for water to flow down. The majority of streams will not flow down the "bad" or "immoral" avenues, but it is inevitable that some stream will.

This is why pesticides breed more resistant pests. It is why antibiotics breed more resistant bacterial strains. These avenues of survival, so to speak, are not off limits, and no matter how undesirable or deadly they are to us, given a large enough population of pests or bacteria, there will be a strain that evolves down that avenue.

This is why these Nazi-like slaughter houses exist. They can exist. They are a means of survival--in terms of business and as a food source for the rest of us--and given that we are a very numerous species, there just will be some of us who don't give a damn about the torture and cruelty done unto these animals, and go into the business as a means of making a living.


But Gib,

If there is nothing truly good/ bad or moral/immoral in the reality, why we all are supposed to follow goodness!

Means, why we teach our children what is good and bad! And, why the world is now so concerned about climate change! Why we do not follow the premise of " natural flow of water" in all cases!

Let the future unfold naturally. Why try to change it!

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Re: Think about it

Postby James S Saint » Tue Dec 29, 2015 3:28 pm

mafdet wrote: So what does happen when a more advanced form of life comes along and decides that the only thing homo sapiens are really good for is food? Will we be able to speak to this more advanced intelligence about things like the ethical treatment of animals? Or if this more advanced intelligence is a product of our own creation, will it also adopt our style of morality: "Ethics is something you pay lip service to, but in the real world you just do whatever is most convenient. Or maybe if we can design an intelligence capable of seeing through all the hypocrisy and twisted logic of humans, it will be hard for homo sapien, "wise man" to convince this intelligence that he too is an intelligent life form, worthy of the respect that he doesn't give to non-intelligent beings.

That already is happening. And you can speak of pretty much anything .. because it won't change anything. And no, they don't accept your morals.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
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Re: Think about it

Postby gib » Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:30 pm

mafdet wrote:
gib wrote:Good rule of thumb: Whatever you think is OK to do to animals, it should be OK to do to you (you're an animal).

Now does this apply to eating you?


I think that was one of the premises behind the movie The Matrix. It's OK for us homo sapiens ("wise men") to put a biological organism in a cage for its entire existence, until it is sufficiently fattened to be slaughtered. So what does happen when a more advanced form of life comes along and decides that the only thing homo sapiens are really good for is food? Will we be able to speak to this more advanced intelligence about things like the ethical treatment of animals? Or if this more advanced intelligence is a product of our own creation, will it also adopt our style of morality: "Ethics is something you pay lip service to, but in the real world you just do whatever is most convenient. Or maybe if we can design an intelligence capable of seeing through all the hypocrisy and twisted logic of humans, it will be hard for homo sapien, "wise man" to convince this intelligence that he too is an intelligent life form, worthy of the respect that he doesn't give to non-intelligent beings.


If one species is the natural food of another, I don't think there is anything unethical about the latter eating the former. Would you say a lion is acting immorally by eating a gazelle?

But I think if a species is intelligent enough to understand the moral implications of what it's doing, there will come some moral responsibilities with eating another species. I'm in agreement with Turds (if that's a surprise) in that the death of the animal should be as quick and painless as possible, and that would be any intelligent species' obligation to its prey.

I think the idea of being harvested for food would be horrible, but that doesn't necessarily mean the predator species is "evil". However, it doesn't mean we have to passively lay down our lives for them either. It would be natural for us to want to escape or rebel, and we would have every right to do so.

A more difficult question is: if we knew we could survive on a vegan diet and remain relatively healthy, and it was within our means, would we have a moral obligation to do that?
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In fact, the idea that there's more differences between groups than there is between individuals is actually the fundamental racist idea.
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Here's a good rule of thumb for politics--attribute everything to stupidity unless you can prove malice.
- Ben Shapiro

right outta high school i tried to get a job as a proctologist but i couldn't find an opening.
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Re: Think about it

Postby phyllo » Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:41 pm

A more difficult question is: if we knew we could survive on a vegan diet and remain relatively healthy, and it was within our means, would we have a moral obligation to do that?
Is vegan more ethical than vegetarian?

What's wrong with drinking a cow's milk? Or eating a chicken egg?
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Re: Think about it

Postby gib » Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:50 pm

zinnat wrote:But Gib,

If there is nothing truly good/ bad or moral/immoral in the reality, why we all are supposed to follow goodness!


Don't get me wrong. I don't think the emergence of sadism and psychopathy in the human species being natural makes it OK. These "immoral" pathways the water flows down are still immoral. It's just that the water doesn't care.

I'm very frustrated with the reality of cruelty and psychopathy. This is just a weird way for me to cope with it. I'm very frustrated with how few people care, and how many people would rather come up with some excuse why it's OK, or why nothing can be done about it, or why things would be worse if it didn't happen. It's all bullshit as far as I'm concerned. It's a coping mechanism, like mine, to avoid facing the moral implications of this and the feeling that one ought to care. Life is comfortable for most people in the West. How liberating it is to feel that there are no problems in the world and that one is therefore free to look out only for one's self, to satisfy one's every desire and appetite. As soon as you bring a moral crisis to attention, that's when the excuses start coming. One doesn't want to have to care.

phyllo wrote:Is vegan more ethical than vegetarian?

What's wrong with drinking a cow's milk? Or eating a chicken egg?


I'm not really making a distinction between vegan and vegetarian. Yes, vegetarian is fine in my books.
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In fact, the idea that there's more differences between groups than there is between individuals is actually the fundamental racist idea.
- Jordan Peterson

Here's a good rule of thumb for politics--attribute everything to stupidity unless you can prove malice.
- Ben Shapiro

right outta high school i tried to get a job as a proctologist but i couldn't find an opening.
- promethean75

Ahh... gib, zombie universes are so last year! I’m doing hyper dimensional mirror realities now.
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Re: Think about it

Postby mafdet » Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:45 pm

James S Saint wrote:That already is happening. And you can speak of pretty much anything .. because it won't change anything. And no, they don't accept your morals.


If we're talking conspiracy theories here, that's kind of the way I feel about it. Talking about the conspirators won't change anything. In the end, people are imprisoned by their own fears. I'll live my life the way I choose, conspirators or no conspirators.
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Re: Think about it

Postby mafdet » Tue Dec 29, 2015 7:15 pm

gib wrote:If one species is the natural food of another, I don't think there is anything unethical about the latter eating the former. Would you say a lion is acting immorally by eating a gazelle?


Herbivore populations that are stalked by carnivores tend to be healthier than those where the weak are not routinely eliminated. But the lion and the gazelle do not think about these things; they are just acting in accordance with nature.


But I think if a species is intelligent enough to understand the moral implications of what it's doing, there will come some moral responsibilities with eating another species. I'm in agreement with Turds (if that's a surprise) in that the death of the animal should be as quick and painless as possible, and that would be any intelligent species' obligation to its prey.


It would be unreasonable to suppose the entire human population could go completely vegan. That is the issue for me too. If one must eat meat, cannot one at least demand that it be done as humanely as possible?

I think the idea of being harvested for food would be horrible, but that doesn't necessarily mean the predator species is "evil". However, it doesn't mean we have to passively lay down our lives for them either. It would be natural for us to want to escape or rebel, and we would have every right to do so.


Getting devoured by a lion or tiger; I guess that's as good a way as any to go. Most people see this as some kind of disrespect to their corpse, but unless you plan on being cremated, your flesh is ultimately going to be food for one organism or another. Most humans will spend the last 20 years of their life in poor and declining health. The way I look at it, getting eaten by a lion would spare me that misery.


A more difficult question is: if we knew we could survive on a vegan diet and remain relatively healthy, and it was within our means, would we have a moral obligation to do that?


I've been a vegetarian since day one. From the time I was an infant, I've refused to eat meat. Now I'll admit that my health may have suffered in the early years, because I'm from a family that was big on meat, and there just wasn't that much in the pantry for a vegetarian. I ended up supplementing my diet with a lot of sugar and processed food. And I think this is the same problem for anybody contemplating vegetarianism: Our food industry and lifestyles just are not geared to supplying nourishment to those who aren't relying on meat as their staple. But since those early years, I've learned a lot about the nutritional needs of vegans and vegetarians, and now, I believe that I am stronger and healthier than most people my age. So I know first hand that it is possible, but it would require a lot of adjustments for the general population.
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Re: Think about it

Postby James S Saint » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:04 pm

mafdet wrote: I'll live my life the way I choose, conspirators or no conspirators.

You will choose what you are caused to believe.
Don't look at the magician's left hand.



For those not interested in a 4 hr BBC video, the video is about how the psychology of manipulating the population has led to a totally controlled population, leaving the thought of actual independent thinkers and democracy null and void.

If you think that you are your own man/woman, you are merely another sucker.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Posts: 25976
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Re: Think about it

Postby gib » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:50 pm

mafdet wrote:Herbivore populations that are stalked by carnivores tend to be healthier than those where the weak are not routinely eliminated. But the lion and the gazelle do not think about these things; they are just acting in accordance with nature.


Exactly.

mafdet wrote:Getting devoured by a lion or tiger; I guess that's as good a way as any to go. Most people see this as some kind of disrespect to their corpse, but unless you plan on being cremated, your flesh is ultimately going to be food for one organism or another. Most humans will spend the last 20 years of their life in poor and declining health. The way I look at it, getting eaten by a lion would spare me that misery.


The pain of your death would be a lot more intense but it would be shorter lived.

mafdet wrote:I've been a vegetarian since day one. From the time I was an infant, I've refused to eat meat. Now I'll admit that my health may have suffered in the early years, because I'm from a family that was big on meat, and there just wasn't that much in the pantry for a vegetarian. I ended up supplementing my diet with a lot of sugar and processed food. And I think this is the same problem for anybody contemplating vegetarianism: Our food industry and lifestyles just are not geared to supplying nourishment to those who aren't relying on meat as their staple. But since those early years, I've learned a lot about the nutritional needs of vegans and vegetarians, and now, I believe that I am stronger and healthier than most people my age. So I know first hand that it is possible, but it would require a lot of adjustments for the general population.


Indeed it would. Vegetarianism is something I consider from time to time, but never with enough seriousness. I think it could happen one day though. I think that would be all around a good thing for me.
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In fact, the idea that there's more differences between groups than there is between individuals is actually the fundamental racist idea.
- Jordan Peterson

Here's a good rule of thumb for politics--attribute everything to stupidity unless you can prove malice.
- Ben Shapiro

right outta high school i tried to get a job as a proctologist but i couldn't find an opening.
- promethean75

Ahh... gib, zombie universes are so last year! I’m doing hyper dimensional mirror realities now.
- Ecmandu
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Re: Think about it

Postby gib » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:55 pm

James S Saint wrote:
mafdet wrote: I'll live my life the way I choose, conspirators or no conspirators.

You will choose what you are caused to believe.
Don't look at the magician's left hand.



For those not interested in a 4 hr BBC video, the video is about how the psychology of manipulating the population has led to a totally controlled population, leaving the thought of actual independent thinkers and democracy null and void.

If you think that you are your own man/woman, you are merely another sucker.


James, just a question out of curiosity: do you think there's any hope for the common man? Any hope that he can, on his own accord, free himself from the control of the manipulators? I mean, by the sounds of it, if I were to even hope that I could somehow escape, that hope would be pre-planned and put into me by the manipulators. Any attempt at escaping the control on anyone's part would have been not only predicted but deliberately made to happen. <-- Is this the way it is?
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

In fact, the idea that there's more differences between groups than there is between individuals is actually the fundamental racist idea.
- Jordan Peterson

Here's a good rule of thumb for politics--attribute everything to stupidity unless you can prove malice.
- Ben Shapiro

right outta high school i tried to get a job as a proctologist but i couldn't find an opening.
- promethean75

Ahh... gib, zombie universes are so last year! I’m doing hyper dimensional mirror realities now.
- Ecmandu
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Re: Think about it

Postby James S Saint » Wed Dec 30, 2015 7:36 am

gib wrote:James, just a question out of curiosity: do you think there's any hope for the common man? Any hope that he can, on his own accord, free himself from the control of the manipulators? I mean, by the sounds of it, if I were to even hope that I could somehow escape, that hope would be pre-planned and put into me by the manipulators. Any attempt at escaping the control on anyone's part would have been not only predicted but deliberately made to happen. <-- Is this the way it is?

The "common man" must have a reason to hold faith and confidence in his chosen course. All such reasons are taken away except the simplest and most mindless. It is those mindless behaviors that form the hierarchical world of power which in turn ensures the mindlessness of behaviors so as to ensure the hierarchy of power (John Nash).

The story of Lot in the Bible/Torah is about those fated cities that once infected by certain ideas ("angels") could not help themselves but to use the ideas ("know the angels") and thereby unwittingly utterly destroy their cities. The capitalization of psychology is one of those angels. You call it "marketing", "selling the public", and more specifically "hypnosis". The "common man" has nothing to do but walk away and not look back.

One cure would be what I have called the "SAM Coop" ("Noah's Arc"). But what chance has any man of holding onto that concept sufficiently to survive the onslaught of misinformation and most clever deception (the "Flood" or "the rising sea of Atlantis")? The prognosis is not favorable. Who comprehends the reason?

You know the film The Matrix. It is about this very subject, merely updated into a higher technology age. The "common man" is unwittingly engaged in a struggle brought about through carefully designed fantasies, "the Perception of Hopes and Threats", PHT, given to him by the greed of power mongers inspiring themselves with competition among themselves (aka "the System"). To abandon the matrix of perception/deception, the System, requires a very rare and special "red pill" from which life becomes far less convenient. Only those of a very rare quality, "uncommon", have any hope for spawning the later survivors of the calamity ("Lot's family"). To "take the red pill" is to become an outcast, black-balled, accused at every turn, disallowed any participation, unemployed, unacceptable.

You had a very good thread about the US Constitution. You went into fine detail, as is worthy to do. You believe that the US Constitution is real. But is it really? Surely it exists. But how much of it is merely show vs actual power? There are a variety of US Senators (Ron Paul, Ran Paul, JFK, and many others) who have spoken of its betrayal and powerlessness. But what does the media, the source of [mis]information for the "common man" say? What the media says is all the "common man" knows to believe. The US Constitution did not prevent the media, nor money, from being monopolized into foreign controllers of law. The US Constitution is merely a part of the show, the perception of constraint ("hope") that isn't really there. There is no democracy because there is no truth given to the populous.

So for the "common man" --- lemmings into the sea.

That is the way it is.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: Think about it

Postby zinnat » Sat Jan 02, 2016 7:25 am

James S Saint wrote:The essence of the question is first, "Are all forms of life equal in priority?"

And then, "What defines an acceptable level of cruelty?"

As long as those questions are left to the wind, there will always be cruelty and unacceptable inequality. Which means that if you wish it to end, you must correct the problem of such questions being left to the wind.


Agreed.

with love,
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Re: Think about it

Postby zinnat » Sat Jan 02, 2016 7:31 am

Chakra Superstar wrote:
zinnat wrote:https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwkj1Y1zC2afUS1GZzZ5Rlpna1E/view?usp=docslist_api

Everyone should see this video, completely and carefully.

With love,
Sanjay


In Australia, cigarettes are sold in 'plain packaging' (see below). Perhaps meat should be packaged in a similar way but with images of tortured animals on it?

ImageImage


.


May be. But, displaying the process is only one aspect. To me, the more important issue is whether all that killings (and, in that way also) should happen in the first place or not. The issue of displaying all that is different and comes later too.

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Re: Think about it

Postby Arminius » Sun Jan 03, 2016 7:19 am

James S Saint wrote:
mafdet wrote: I'll live my life the way I choose, conspirators or no conspirators.

You will choose what you are caused to believe.
Don't look at the magician's left hand.



For those not interested in a 4 hr BBC video, the video is about how the psychology of manipulating the population has led to a totally controlled population, leaving the thought of actual independent thinkers and democracy null and void.

If you think that you are your own man/woman, you are merely another sucker.

Another "sucker" or the end-consumer or the last man.

"»We have discovered happiness«- say the last men and blink." (Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche).
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Re: Think about it

Postby Arminius » Sun Jan 03, 2016 7:51 am

Think about it:

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Re: Think about it

Postby Arminius » Sun Jan 03, 2016 7:53 am

Political correctness in a globalistic phase is the most fatal behavior. Globalism destroys everything on this planet, thus also and especially humans.
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Re: Think about it

Postby phyllo » Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:52 pm

May be. But, displaying the process is only one aspect. To me, the more important issue is whether all that killings (and, in that way also) should happen in the first place or not. The issue of displaying all that is different and comes later too.
The video is trying to get an emotional reaction to the suffering of animals. It's not asking whether or not people should eat animals in order to survive.
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Re: Think about it

Postby Chakra Superstar » Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:14 am

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Re: Think about it

Postby zinnat » Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:02 am

Got some spare time after a long interval.

phyllo wrote:
May be. But, displaying the process is only one aspect. To me, the more important issue is whether all that killings (and, in that way also) should happen in the first place or not. The issue of displaying all that is different and comes later too.
The video is trying to get an emotional reaction to the suffering of animals. It's not asking whether or not people should eat animals in order to survive.


Actually, it is asking though not directly. Deduction will eventually lead to that very question, no matter in which way you see the vid.

Secondly, forget about vid, i am asking the same question.

with love,
sanjay
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zinnat
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