FORMS OF GOVERNMENT

For discussions of culture, politics, economics, sociology, law, business and any other topic that falls under the social science remit.

Which is the best form of government?

1) Monarchy (Tyranny).
2
17%
2) Aristocracy (Oligarchy).
2
17%
3) Democracy (Ochlocracy).
3
25%
- No one.
5
42%
 
Total votes : 12

Re: FORMS OF GOVERNMENT

Postby James S Saint » Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:52 am

Arminius wrote:Would you agree, if someone said that most of the human governments are like cancerous ulcers, so that the said cells become more and more ill cells / cells that wrongly handle their environment and will be dead soon?

Actually it is hard for me to try to describe what typical governments are like, but yes, they are almost always ill formed and spread a malignancy even when they had no such intention. Merely by wondering through a business, church, or country, a person can "see"/sense its governance. How alive the people are or how depressed or whatever reveals that which is governing their lives. But that doesn't mean that just because the people are happy, the governance is good. Nor does it mean that just because the people are not happy, the governance is bad. It is far more complicated than that.

One sign of a good governance is that for generations, the people are very joyfully busy. And a critically important sign of a good governance is that the highest authority in the land is always merely a few steps away. That is the one they just can't hold onto. They keep wanting to spread themselves out over the entire world; Godwannabes. If they are to be gods, they really should be very small, local gods only and never presume authority beyond one's reach.

SAM accounts for all of these things and much more through the concept of IJOT, mini-constitutions, and philosophically interconnected coops, the "Angel Network".
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: FORMS OF GOVERNMENT

Postby Arminius » Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:29 am

James S Saint wrote:SAM accounts for all of these things and much more through the concept of IJOT, mini-constitutions, and philosophically interconnected coops, the "Angel Network".

"IJOT" is the Integral of Joy Over Time.
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Re: FORMS OF GOVERNMENT

Postby James S Saint » Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:03 pm

Arminius wrote:
James S Saint wrote:SAM accounts for all of these things and much more through the concept of IJOT, mini-constitutions, and philosophically interconnected coops, the "Angel Network".

"IJOT" is the Integral of Joy Over Time.

Yes.

Imagine a mother keeping very close tabs on her family such that she can keep a diary of about how good each member is feeling day by day. In a SAM Coop that same thing is a very high priority. And each day an accumulating IJOT value is calculated so as to reflect how much total joy is being experienced by each life, regardless of how or why. The mother figures out ways to keep her family as happy as possible and the Analyst in the SAM Coop figures out ways to keep the IJOT figure as high as possible.

Image

The purpose of a government is to improve the lives of those it governs. And the purpose of each life is to increase its IJOT. Thus for a government to improve lives, it must be aware of and understand how to affect the IJOT levels of all members. And that is why the SAM Coops must always be very small. If a SAM Coop gets very big at all, the intimate awareness of the actual quality of life of each member cannot be known or governed efficiently.

It's a principle throughout all of nature requiring local support for local concerns. Even subatomic particles exactly obey the same principle (which is why larger nuclei are radioactive, falling apart, staying small). Individual living bodies have size limits for that exact same reason. If a body gets so large that parts cannot be sensed properly or adjusted, those parts atrophy. When governments get too large, .. guess what.

And the Communists still think that the entire world can be remotely governed by merely a few people with computers, surveillance cameras, microphones, and drones.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: FORMS OF GOVERNMENT

Postby Arminius » Mon Jul 20, 2015 5:24 pm

James S Saint wrote:
Arminius wrote:
James S Saint wrote:SAM accounts for all of these things and much more through the concept of IJOT, mini-constitutions, and philosophically interconnected coops, the "Angel Network".

"IJOT" is the Integral of Joy Over Time.

Yes.

Imagine a mother keeping very close tabs on her family such that she can keep a diary of about how good each member is feeling day by day. In a SAM Coop that same thing is a very high priority. And each day an accumulating IJOT value is calculated so as to reflect how much total joy is being experienced by each life, regardless of how or why. The mother figures out ways to keep her family as happy as possible and the Analyst in the SAM Coop figures out ways to keep the IJOT figure as high as possible.

Image

The purpose of a government is to improve the lives of those it governs. And the purpose of each life is to increase its IJOT. Thus for a government to improve lives, it must be aware of and understand how to affect the IJOT levels of all members. And that is why the SAM Coops must always be very small. If a SAM Coop gets very big at all, the intimate awareness of the actual quality of life of each member cannot be known or governed efficiently.

It's a principle throughout all of nature requiring local support for local concerns. Even subatomic particles exactly obey the same principle (which is why larger nuclei are radioactive, falling apart, staying small). Individual living bodies have size limits for that exact same reason. If a body gets so large that parts cannot be sensed properly or adjusted, those parts atrophy. When governments get too large, .. guess what.

And the Communists still think that the entire world can be remotely governed by merely a few people with computers, surveillance cameras, microphones, and drones.

That's all true, James. SAM must work according to the principle of subsidiarity.
Last edited by Arminius on Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FORMS OF GOVERNMENT

Postby James S Saint » Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:14 pm

Arminius wrote:SAM must work according to the principle of subsidiarity.

subsidiarity (səbˌsɪdɪˈærɪtɪ)
n
1. a principle of social doctrine that all social bodies exist for the sake of the individual so that what individuals are able to do, society should not take over, and what small societies can do, larger societies should not take over
2. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) (in political systems) the principle of devolving decisions to the lowest practical level

Very much so. And no doubt even more than the RCC.

People think in terms of a government making decisions and the people doing the work. There is a degree of sense to that of course. The problem is that just as the work must be distributed, the decision making must also be distributed. And many throughout history figured that out too. That issue has been proven to death. But the problem is that they never seemed to have understood upon what basis to divide decision making. They are always globalizing the wrong things and localizing the wrong things.

And that is the practical function in the belief in God (a wiser decision maker). But the remaining problem is that those who speak for God haven't sufficient reason to be trusted. Thus even though religions can govern a vast population through prophets and preaching, they cannot do it harmoniously enough to establish true "Heaven on Earth". The belief that there is a wiser decision maker somewhere way up there on the governing mountain or sky is insufficient.

God must be brought down to Earth so that people need not put faith and trust in remote controllers from afar. It isn't God whom people mistrust, rather those who speak for God. SAM removes the middle men (generally upsetting their change tables).
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: FORMS OF GOVERNMENT

Postby Arminius » Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:43 am

James S Saint wrote:
Arminius wrote:SAM must work according to the principle of subsidiarity.

subsidiarity (səbˌsɪdɪˈærɪtɪ)
n
1. a principle of social doctrine that all social bodies exist for the sake of the individual so that what individuals are able to do, society should not take over, and what small societies can do, larger societies should not take over
2. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) (in political systems) the principle of devolving decisions to the lowest practical level

Very much so. And no doubt even more than the RCC.

People think in terms of a government making decisions and the people doing the work. There is a degree of sense to that of course. The problem is that just as the work must be distributed, the decision making must also be distributed. And many throughout history figured that out too. That issue has been proven to death. But the problem is that they never seemed to have understood upon what basis to divide decision making. They are always globalizing the wrong things and localizing the wrong things.

Intentionally. On purpose. By design.

James S Saint wrote:And that is the practical function in the belief in God (a wiser decision maker). But the remaining problem is that those who speak for God haven't sufficient reason to be trusted. Thus even though religions can govern a vast population through prophets and preaching, they cannot do it harmoniously enough to establish true "Heaven on Earth". The belief that there is a wiser decision maker somewhere way up there on the governing mountain or sky is insufficient.

God must be brought down to Earth so that people need not put faith and trust in remote controllers from afar. It isn't God whom people mistrust, rather those who speak for God. SAM removes the middle men (generally upsetting their change tables).

How can SAM do this successfully?
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Re: FORMS OF GOVERNMENT

Postby James S Saint » Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:37 am

Arminius wrote:How can SAM do this successfully?

Merely by very carefully documenting the current rationale and accepting resolution debating to correct for mistakes. It doesn't take long before the mountain comes to all seekers.

Again, the only purpose of governing is to improve the lives of those who bow to that government's demands. Any sensible government (or religion for that matter) has serious cause to display the exact, step by step rationale for WHY it is making the demands that it makes. The simple minded idea that drives the world today is merely "there are bad guys over there, so give me all of your money and support to fight them for you". That is very much too little detail to lead toward anything more than more of the same, generation after generation, with never an end to the suffering (aka "eternal Hell").

There can be nothing more important to social individuals than to know the goal of their society .. and ensure that it is being properly pursued. Do any of you know that? Anyone? Not one.

SAM requires that every single little rule is not merely documented, but documented along with the exact intended rationale as to WHY it should be obeyed by anyone. Merely being a favorite or most popular vote is not sufficient. How it relates to IJOT ends up being the most fundamental concern for every action taken. IJOT is the sole purpose of all life and wisdom is the rationale as to how to accomplish it. A part of that wisdom is to openly document exactly why everything is being done, thus leaving no room for doubt, distrust, or disbelief in the governing principles being applied.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: FORMS OF GOVERNMENT

Postby Arminius » Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:44 pm

James S Saint wrote:
Arminius wrote:How can SAM do this successfully?

Merely by very carefully documenting the current rationale and accepting resolution debating to correct for mistakes. It doesn't take long before the mountain comes to all seekers.

Again, the only purpose of governing is to improve the lives of those who bow to that government's demands. Any sensible government (or religion for that matter) has serious cause to display the exact, step by step rationale for WHY it is making the demands that it makes. The simple minded idea that drives the world today is merely "there are bad guys over there, so give me all of your money and support to fight them for you". That is very much too little detail to lead toward anything more than more of the same, generation after generation, with never an end to the suffering (aka "eternal Hell").

There can be nothing more important to social individuals than to know the goal of their society .. and ensure that it is being properly pursued. Do any of you know that? Anyone? Not one.

SAM requires that every single little rule is not merely documented, but documented along with the exact intended rationale as to WHY it should be obeyed by anyone. Merely being a favorite or most popular vote is not sufficient. How it relates to IJOT ends up being the most fundamental concern for every action taken. IJOT is the sole purpose of all life and wisdom is the rationale as to how to accomplish it. A part of that wisdom is to openly document exactly why everything is being done, thus leaving no room for doubt, distrust, or disbelief in the governing principles being applied.

As I already said several times: That can work only then, if SAM is and remains small, and if there is no other form of society and corporation than SAM.
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Re: FORMS OF GOVERNMENT

Postby James S Saint » Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:00 pm

Arminius wrote: That can work only then, if SAM is and remains small, and if there is no other form of society and corporation than SAM.

???
No. Each SAM coop is small but there can be any number of them. And the more there are, the better for everyone. But what other governing types are also going on elsewhere is irrelevant other than them being a potential hazard to navigation. SAM doesn't at all require that the entire world population be SAM. SAM can exist inside just about any other governing style. Otherwise you would be saying that for humans to live, all animals must become human. SAM is a higher intelligence form of society, higher on an evolutionary scale and doesn't require revolution at all.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: FORMS OF GOVERNMENT

Postby Arminius » Wed Jul 22, 2015 2:36 pm

James S Saint wrote:Each SAM coop is small but there can be any number of them. And the more there are, the better for everyone.

That is what I am saying.

James S Saint wrote:But what other governing types are also going on elsewhere is irrelevant other than them being a potential hazard to navigation. SAM doesn't at all require that the entire world population be SAM.

If the others are not like SAM, then they try to Infiltrate SAM and will perhaps destroy SAM.

James S Saint wrote:SAM can exist inside just about any other governing style. Otherwise you would be saying that for humans to live, all animals must become human.

No. Animals are not capable of destroying human governing styles.

James S Saint wrote:SAM is a higher intelligence form of society, higher on an evolutionary scale and doesn't require revolution at all.

That does not necessarily prevent the danger of Infiltration and destroying of SAM by others.
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Re: FORMS OF GOVERNMENT

Postby James S Saint » Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:21 am

Arminius wrote:
James S Saint wrote:SAM is a higher intelligence form of society, higher on an evolutionary scale and doesn't require revolution at all.

That does not necessarily prevent the danger of Infiltration and destroying of SAM by others.

And being human does not prevent the possibility of a lion attacking and eating you or perhaps a gang of apes from attacking your family. So is that going to stop you from trying to be human? Would you rather be an ape or a lion?
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: FORMS OF GOVERNMENT

Postby Arminius » Fri Jul 24, 2015 4:17 am

James S Saint wrote:
Arminius wrote:
James S Saint wrote:SAM is a higher intelligence form of society, higher on an evolutionary scale and doesn't require revolution at all.

That does not necessarily prevent the danger of Infiltration and destroying of SAM by others.

And being human does not prevent the possibility of a lion attacking and eating you or perhaps a gang of apes from attacking your family. So is that going to stop you from trying to be human? Would you rather be an ape or a lion?

Would it make a great difference in the case of the certain extinction of all human beings?
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Re: FORMS OF GOVERNMENT

Postby James S Saint » Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:14 pm

Arminius wrote:Would it make a great difference in the case of the certain extinction of all human beings?

Other than finding another planet to invade, SAM is the only hope homosapian has left. SAM knows how to use machines .. and how not to.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: FORMS OF GOVERNMENT

Postby Arminius » Fri Jul 24, 2015 2:39 pm

James S Saint wrote:
Arminius wrote:Would it make a great difference in the case of the certain extinction of all human beings?

Other than finding another planet to invade, SAM is the only hope homosapian has left. SAM knows how to use machines .. and how not to.

I thought so: SAM is a matter of hope.
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Re: FORMS OF GOVERNMENT

Postby James S Saint » Fri Jul 24, 2015 6:19 pm

Arminius wrote:
James S Saint wrote:
Arminius wrote:Would it make a great difference in the case of the certain extinction of all human beings?

Other than finding another planet to invade, SAM is the only hope homosapian has left. SAM knows how to use machines .. and how not to.

I thought so: SAM is a matter of hope.

It yields the highest probability of experiencing the greatest average degree of joy for the longest period of time (IJOT) and for the most number of people. What else could the purpose of a governance be?
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: FORMS OF GOVERNMENT

Postby Arminius » Fri Jul 24, 2015 7:37 pm

But many humans . especailly most of the current humans - do not want to hope. Those humans want evrything now!
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Re: FORMS OF GOVERNMENT

Postby James S Saint » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:13 pm

Arminius wrote:But many humans . especailly most of the current humans - do not want to hope. Those humans want evrything now!

That is the result of the way that they have been governed, greed from atop playing itself out. But at all times, there are a few who sense what life is actually about (anentropic harmony) and respect only that. Eventually a few of those will get together under the proper constitution and from that point on, the world of Man will never be the same (much as Moses predicted).

All people (and all living things) are always guided by PHT. Once that PHT keys on SAM, it will never change away from it. SAM is the "chariot" upon which Love arrives to establish an everlasting throne of joyful harmony. Those who do not like it, need not participate in it. There will come enough who will (assuming anyone is left).

How many people would prefer to have a family member who had access to any and every professional field required in life; medical, law, military, finance,...? SAM is what arranges for that in a way similar to having one person (or preferably a small department) internet linked to every strategy involved, the "Angel Network".

That person or dept. is the "seat of wisdom" in the Coop. And everyone in the group personally knows that person and everyone in that dept.. Everything that dept. does is recorded for examination at any time to verify its wisdom or lack thereof. There is no waiting in lines, phone calls waiting for medical service or legal service from strangers, shopping for best prices, hoping that you don't get fooled too badly, and hoping that you are not merely chasing a false flag or red herring wasting your money away, never really having enough for the best service and never knowing how good the service really is or isn't.

With SAM, you see why everything is the way it is and can openly (authentically) discuss it at any time with anyone in the group. That is why your "authentic living" can happen with SAM.



Actually it is analogous to the first time someone used a computer. Look what came of it. The vast distinction is that SAM coops are directly aimed at IJOT, perhaps like a computer that was designed to only calculate how to have more fun over a long period of time and could do nothing else.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: FORMS OF GOVERNMENT

Postby LaughingMan » Sat Jul 25, 2015 1:10 am

Different forms of government.

Tell us how you want the centralized dick in your asshole and rape into oblivion concerning your indentured servitude.

Would you like your anal rape Communist, Capitalistic, Democratic, or of a mixed variety?

What kind of political socio economic rape fest system can we sell you today? Act now and we'll throw in some Vasoline which you can cleverly disguise as free choice or an impartial social system.


Would you like fries with that also served up with a nice fructose corn syrup softdrink?
Coming Out Live Streaming Online From The Global Gulag, Asylum, Police State, And Oligarchical Plantation Near You.

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