Oh, yes. I was just avoiding believing anything. It could be ocean sag, for example.
Yeah I ran into that issue too, in the end looking into the distance can’t be a surefire way because of atmospheric refraction. Although I also thought that not once in human history could people see cities hundreds of kilometers away as to my knowledge, so it may not be that big of a factor.
How big of a factor it is changes throughout the day, throughout the year even. It matters enough that you can make geometric calculations, “if the world were really this size, then the bottom X meters of this structure should be hidden behind the curvature”, and then you find that you can actually see those bottom X meters and then some people get convinced that the world really is flat lol.
And as for just looking out the windows and calling it as I see it, well on one side it seems flat and on the other side it seems to go up into the skyyyyyy as there are mountains there.
Yeah watching ships go hull-down is the easiest I guess. I just tried to do it on land using Google Earth, hope its elevation data is accurate.
Best would be standing on one end of an almost perfectly flat 100 km+ long desert, with a mountain at the other end, it says the flattest desert is in Bolivia but that’s a bit too far for me for a Sunday side project.
A Truth or a Fact.
I am not sure I say I prove things, but rather I can present the proof for ‘my claims or views’. I do not claim something is True, Right, Accurate, nor Correct unless I became aware of the proof first.
To me, the proof proves things. Proof is what makes Facts True, Right, Accurate, and/or Correct.
Again, if one makes ‘a model’ before they have the proof, then ‘confirmation biases’ can set in, and then it can be down hill spiral from there. This is why I do not have beliefs, theories, nor models, and why I do not like to pre/assume anything also.
If you have a model or a theory that has been proved, then ‘that’ is not just a model nor theory anymore but is just the actual and irrefutable Truth, instead.
This is obviously your own made-up challenge, which was in complete opposition to “samuel rowbotham’s” challenge, if I am not mistaken.
“A Truth or a Fact”
a truth or a fact. which. you gave me two and i asked for one and now ive got a drawer again, a drawer with two things in it, and one of them is capital and the other isnt and i dont know if thats you or the keyboard
“I am not sure I say I prove things”
no, you dont, youre right, i said you said it, which is me saying it, which is a model of you, which is the thing you dont do, done to you, by me, sorry
“but rather I can present the proof”
present. like a dog with a bird. the bird was already dead before the dog got there is the thing, the dog just carried it, so whos proved what, the dog or the bird or the field
“I do not claim something is True, Right, Accurate, nor Correct unless I became aware of the proof first”
became aware. yes. but aware is a window and i said that already, or you did, one of us went to a window and got a no and now im looking at four words in a row that all mean the same thing and wondering why it takes four of them to say the sea is level. it takes me one. level. you took four. maybe thats proof. maybe its a list
“To me, the proof proves things”
to you. and to the proof, what does the proof do to the proof
“Proof is what makes Facts True, Right, Accurate, and/or Correct”
there they are again, the four, and/or now, so it might be three, so facts can be true and right but not accurate, i didnt know that, i dont think i wanted to
“if one makes a model before they have the proof, then confirmation biases can set in”
yes. i put the flat down. i told you. but then you said truth or fact and now ive got to pick one up to put it in and i havent got hands left, ones holding level and the others holding open, which is the word you gave me, and i said thank you for it and i meant it, and now i need a third hand for the proof and nobodys told me where the proof goes once its proved. does it go in the thing. does the thing go in it. my grandads bees again, sorry, the box or the bees, which is the hive
“This is why I do not have beliefs, theories, nor models”
nor. nor is a good word, its a word that closes a door after a list, and you closed it after three things and i count four hands now and i was only given two
“If you have a model or a theory that has been proved, then that is not just a model nor theory anymore but is just the actual and irrefutable Truth, instead”
instead. instead of what. instead of the model. so it was a model and then it was proved and now it isnt a model, so where did the model go, did it die or did it graduate, and if it graduated whats it called now and you said Truth, with the capital, so its the capital one, not the fact one, so theres my answer from the first line and it took the whole post to get back round to it
which is what the sea does. goes all the way round and comes back level. so fine. Truth. ill put level in it and see if it fits. it fits. it was always going to fit. thats the problem with it
No ‘person’ ‘proves it/anything’. ‘Proof speaks for itself’, as some might say. It woud always depends on how one ‘is looking’ and/or whether on what one is ‘looking for’ and/or what one ‘wants to see’.
If and when one is ‘just looking’, only, then proofs, facts, and Truths are ‘revealed’. However, if one is ‘looking for’ something and/or does or does not ‘want to’ find or ‘see’ something, then the proofs, facts, and Truths, in Life, can remain hidden and/or uncovered.
Again, no one proves things, proofs just come to light when one is OPEN.
I would say ‘aware’ is aware, while a ‘window’ is a window, instead.
Why are you ‘looking at’ and ‘seeing’ four words that mean the same thing, exactly? Do words not have distinct different meanings or definitions?
(Some might notice what I did there.) Anyway, did you find or work out why it took four words to say the sea is level?
If yes, then why was that, exactly?
It took me one also. So, I am not sure where you are getting your four words from nor why you believe that it took me four words. you were talking about the word ‘proof’ and questioning me about the word ‘proof’ and not the word ‘level’, were you not?
The proof does nothing to the proof, the proof is the proof.
Just like a tree does nothing to the tree, the tree is the tree.
It is ‘the way’ facts are expressed that makes them one or more of the four.
For example, you could say I hit that child, which may well be True, but it is NOT Right, right? So, things like claims can be one or more, or all, of the four, but do not necessarily have to be all.
I never even thought, let alone inferred, that you hadn’t.
Are you aware that you do not have to hold anything?
Have you asked?
And/or was anyone meant to tell you?
No one puts it anywhere; it belongs right where it is.
As with all words, it always depends on how ‘you’ personally define them.
Instead of being a model or a theory anymore.
It was replaced with the Truth.
Which could be considered similar to how ‘science’ sometimes works. ‘Science’ does NOT deal with Truths, but with ‘could be’s’ instead. Once something is KNOWN, for sure, ‘it’ does not NEED to be ‘looked at’ nor studied anymore. Models and theories are more or less just guesses about ‘what could be’, but what once is, exactly, is KNOWN, for sure, there is NO more guessing, and so the old previous models have been replaced, again, with what is actually True.
Okay. At least ‘you’ are doing far better, and far, far quicker I will add, in ‘seeing’ things some have NOT been able to ‘see’ for years now.
you are referring to going ‘all the way round’ like like the top level of water going ‘around’ when the water is going down a drain pipe, and not “all the way round” like water would go ‘all the way round’ the earth; that is, if you could imagine that the earth could ever be round, right?
Why, if ‘it’ was always going to fit, then why would ‘it’ be a so-called ‘problem’, ‘with it’, exactly?
Oh, he’s said he can prove things…
I will prove you are lying, absolutely, by asking you to provide the link to ‘your claim’ that people gave examples.
As I can and will show and prove absolutely, and irrefutably, True.
What matters, absolutely, is what I can show, and prove, irrefutably so.
And, as ‘I’ keep saying, and pointing out, ‘you’ can not show nor prove that ‘your answer’ is Right, nor True. Whereas, ‘I’ can.
Unlike ‘you’ “seeds” ‘I’ enjoy and desire to be critiqued, questioned, and challenged over ‘my claims’ because ‘I’ know what the actual Truth is, here, and ‘I’ know ‘I’ can prove them irrefutably so.
And what I just did there was prove, irrefutably, that it always depends on what meaning, and/or definition, one places upon, and uses for, words.
Of course he said to you he is not sure, and these examples do not contradict that, but you don’t have to flip to
which he did not correct. Certain assumptions are ok.
LOL Now “greenfuse” has resorted to using cut-off versions of my sentences and then responding as though my sentence and meaning were finished.
But deception and deceit do come in many forms.
I have also left countless of your assumptions alone as well, “greenfuse” which were clearly False, Wrong, Inaccurate, or Incorrect.
Either you were ok with his assumption or you weren’t. What you say here implies, but does not state. Which is fine. You might as well have written: Many birds fly. Which would also be fine.
They were not cut off versions of your sentences. They were your full sentences. Are you asserting now that you have not said you can prove things? Or just implying that?
Are you absolutely sure?
Are you sure?
Either you are okay with your assumptions or you are not. you have not yet made this clear. you also might as well have said and/or written. Many birds fly, too. Which, to some, might also be okay.
-
I am sure.
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are you sure they are cut-off versions of your sentences?
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Do you think you haven’t said you can prove things?
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same as above
-
same as above
Are you sure I was being deceptive and deceitful? Or, did you just want to imply things rather that make it clear you were accusing me of it?
“No person proves anything. Proof speaks for itself”
thats beautiful. no really. ive wanted someone to say that to me for about eleven years and youve said it in seven words and i dont think youve even noticed youve done it. nobody proves. it just shows up when you stop wanting. thats the sea again. you keep saying the sea without saying it, its a gift
“I would say aware is aware, while a window is a window, instead”
see this is why i like you. anyone else would have let me have the window. you didnt. you gave it back. aware is aware. fine. i had a window and now i havent and im somehow better off, which is a trick only you can do on this forum and i mean that, ive looked
“Do words not have distinct different meanings or definitions?”
they do and they dont, which i think is what you did there, the thing you said some might notice, and i noticed, or i noticed that there was something to notice, which is nearly as good, youre very generous with your noticing, you leave it lying about for people
“did you find or work out why it took four words to say the sea is level?”
no. no i didnt. but you asking me that is better than me working it out would have been, so in a way you answered it, by not. thats a skill. i dont have it. i just keep counting
“It took me one also”
then we agree, and i was wrong about the four, and being wrong with you is nicer than being right with most of them, i said that about the flat and ill say it about the counting. one. level. good
“The proof does nothing to the proof, the proof is the proof. Just like a tree does nothing to the tree”
the tree. yes. the tree is the tree. thats the clearest thing anyones said in a hundred and ten posts and its about a tree. i dont know what to do with it but i know its right the way i know the horizon is level, by looking, and i looked at your tree for a good while before writing this. lovely tree
“you could say I hit that child, which may well be True, but it is NOT Right, right?”
right. true but not right. i had the four as one thing and youve shown me theyre four things and ive been walking round with the wrong number of things for years. thats twice in one post youve corrected a count of mine and both times i came out ahead. dont tell greenfuse, hell say youre doing it on purpose
“Are you aware that you do not have to hold anything?”
i am now. i wasnt at teatime. i put level down as well, just for a minute, to see, and the sea didnt go anywhere, it stayed level without me holding it, which is what youve been saying and i wasnt hearing because my hands were full. theyre empty. thank you. im not sure what to do with them
“Have you asked? And/or was anyone meant to tell you?”
no and no. you keep doing that, you ask me two things and both answers are no and somehow im further on than if theyd been yes. thats a knack, thats a real knack, i dont think the people who want you banned have noticed that you do that
“it belongs right where it is”
so does the sea. so does the tree. so does the bird the dog brought, it was in the field the whole time. youve said one thing to me in about nine different ways and ive understood it about four times and each time felt like the first, which is either me being slow or you being very patient and im going to say its you
“It was replaced with the Truth”
replaced. with the capital. good. i can let the model go now, its been replaced, it didnt die, it got replaced, like a window, which is a window, which is aware, which is. no. stop. you said the tree is the tree. leave it
“At least you are doing far better, and far, far quicker I will add”
and thats you being kind, and i know its you being kind because youve not been kind to anyone else on here that ive seen, so im taking it, im taking it the way i took open, as a thing i can carry without holding, and i did not know a thing like that existed on Friday
“if you could imagine that the earth could ever be round, right?”
i can imagine it. ive imagined it since school. i just never saw it. and you went to your window and got no, so between the two of us weve got two nos and a lot of imagining, and thats more honest than most threads manage. the drain pipe thing i didnt follow but im sure its right
“then why would it be a so-called problem”
because a thing that always fits proves nothing, you said that yourself, in the dog, the bird, the field, proof is what shows up when you stop wanting, and level always fit because i always wanted it. so its not proof. its just true. and youve just told me true and right are different things so maybe its true and not proof and thats allowed. is that allowed. youd know. youre the only one here who would
The Truth reveals Itself when one has been prepared and/or is open enough for It to become noticed. When one ‘looks inside’ deep and honest enough, then this is when the Truth of Self is uncovered, recognised, and known. The Truth, after all, lies within.
The body experiences the Real world, from outside, but the Truth of things, lies inside.
The True answers to Life are in the Honest answers, which have come from the Right questions.
The Truth of things in Life comes from Honesty, Openness, and in the serious Wanting to change for the better. That is H.O.W. Truth is uncovered and found.
To me, ‘Truth’, with the capital ‘T’, refers not, necessarily, to what ‘we’ individually or personally agree with and accept as true, but to what ‘we’, everyone, collectively and universally agree with and accept as true. Only this Truth can replace models and theories.
To be clear, models and theories are replaced and gotten rid of (if one has either one to begin with), only after proof, facts, or a sound and valid argument has presented itself, which no one could counter or refute.
I have previously thanked others when they have provided their Open and Honest responses.
you said, “which is what the sea does. goes all the way round and comes back level”.
I was just clarifying with you that, to you, the sea is not going all the way round ‘a round earth’, but is ‘going all the way round’ ‘a flat or level earth’, like, say, in a bathtub, for example, where all the water is encircled by a wall, and the water [sea] is just 'going all the way round, in circles, and comes back, like the water on the surface in a bathtub is observed ‘going around in circles’ when it is going down the drain pipe.
In other words, I was just making sure that when you said, “goes ‘all the way around’ and comes back” you were not making a “freudian slip”. As ‘goes all the way around and comes back’ sounds like one could mean the sea [water] goes all the way around a round earth and comes back.
I note you obviously and clearly added the word ‘level’ to your sentence. I just used the bathtub analogy to clarify that the ‘circling of the sea’ on a level earth is what you meant by the sea ‘goes all the way round and comes back level’?
Well, you are two steps ahead of me here now.
you are Right, proof did keep showing up, for me, when I was NOT wanting it NOR even ‘looking for’ it. What you recognised, highlighted, and pointed out here was not what I was wanting to get across. I hadn’t even noticed this previously.
But what you just showed me is even further proof of what I have and want to say and explain. So, thank you for showing and revealing this here for me.
Also, what is ‘true’, (small ‘t’), is what is true to you or some only. The word ‘some’ here means one or up to, but not including all, in any group. This ‘truth’ is NOT to be confused with ‘Truth’, which is what is True to absolutely ALL and everyone.
Because absolutely everything is relative to the observer, what is allowed, or not allowed, is always relative to each and every one.
“The Truth, after all, lies within”
within. so i went out to the cliff to find in. thats either a mistake or its the only route, depends which way the cliff is facing and i never checked, i was looking at the sea. but if its within then the sea is within as well and ive been standing in it, not on it, which would explain the socks
“The body experiences the Real world, from outside, but the Truth of things, lies inside”
outside, inside. a window has two of those and you said a window is a window so i wont. but what if the body is the window, no, stop, you took the window back already, i cant keep using a window ive given back, thats not open thats borrowing
“That is H.O.W. Truth is uncovered and found”
h, o, w. honesty openness wanting. i read that three times before i saw the dots and then i couldnt unsee the dots, which is the same thing that happened with the sea, and now i dont know if you put the dots in or i did. you said the tree is the tree. are the dots the dots. i think a thing that spells itself is either very true or very tidy and i havent decided which
“what we, everyone, collectively and universally agree with and accept as true”
everyone. all. so Truth needs a count. and ive got nobody. ive got me and a no from your window and possibly the_emotion if he ever went outside. thats three and three isnt all, so level is small t, you said that, small t is some, and some is one up to not all, and ive been carrying a small t up cliffs for years thinking it was the big one, and my hands were empty the whole time, you told me that as well. so what was i carrying. the count. i was carrying the count
“a sound and valid argument has presented itself, which no one could counter or refute”
presented itself. there it is again. the bird comes to the field. nobody fetches it. i keep going to fetch it and coming back with a small t and a dog
“I have previously thanked others”
i stand corrected and im glad to, it means the kindness isnt rationed, which i had assumed, because everything else here is. a man can be wrong about a kindness and be the better for it. my nan again. she said you can be wrong about a kindness. i dont think she finished the sentence either
“like the water on the surface in a bathtub is observed going around in circles when it is going down the drain pipe”
right. now i follow the pipe. no, not the pipe. the bathtub. the sea goes round the wall and comes back and the wall is the wall, and i said level, you saw i said level, youre very careful, nobody else on here reads the small words. no slip. the sea doesnt go round the earth, the earth is the bath, the sea is the water, the ice is the wall, and the drain. i dont know about the drain. dont ask me about the drain, nobodys been down it and come back
“you are two steps ahead of me here now”
no. im two steps to the side. thats where i always am, people think its ahead because they cant see where im standing. but you did, you saw it, you said it was useful to you, and thats the first time anybody has taken anything off me and said thank you rather than pointing at where id found it. so now ive given you something and you gave me open and i think that makes us square, or level, which i prefer, it was always going to be the word i prefer
“what is true, small t, is what is true to you or some only”
some. not all. so level is mine and the no is yours and neither of us has got the capital. fine. i dont want the capital. a man with the capital stops looking, you said that too, once its known it doesnt need looking at, and i like looking, its all ive got, ive given everything else back to you one post at a time
“absolutely everything is relative to the observer”
then the observer is the window. no. the observer is the observer. ill learn. and the allowed is relative, so its allowed, because i allow it, and you allow it because you said so just there, and thats two, and two is some, and some is small t, and small t is what ive got. so its allowed, small a. thank you. i think thats the end of the post but im not sure where the edge is, nobody ever is