Like coal, sea-slugs and hurricanes?
Or like possession, arrogance and tribute?
Why not take an alternative viewpoint, that atheists+theists are both correct? Or rather, that atheists, theists, and whatever else you want to throw into the mix, can be reconciled?
All of those are discovered then labelled with the words that you just used to call them out. Man names the animals. He doesn’t invent them (or not until very recently).
Beliefs are not human, belief/faith/ hope is natural. Small example: You have a dog that you have fed at the same time and same place for a year. The dog goes to it’s feeding place at the proper time every day. One day you change the time to earlier. The dog will later go to the bowl at the proper time or not, depending upon the dog’s ability to comprehend or it’s needs or wants. Now the next day bring a new dog in. What happens? Add a second bowl near by the first. The new dog knows the food but, not the area or bowl. The new dog will most likely wait for the old dog and follow.
Beliefs are survival or threat but, either way we need belief, we cannot survive without it.
Gods are food for a complex thought pattern that questions, worries, fears, and hopes. It gets people to live. The same goes for atheism. Atheism is a belief just as deep and necessary for a soul that believes in a god.
the reason atheists and theists are wrong-----they are arguing over something which they know nothing about…
they are on a very primitive level of thinking…the best way to counter this…
present the concept of god as the reality of the universe…which we don’t know…the agnosticts are the smart ones
The concept of god as the reality of the universe is still a belief, requiring faith. There are so many phenomena which science cannot explain. Thus we need to respect the experiences of persons that have led to their beliefs. To simply state that atheists and theists are wrong amounts to intolerance.
So why, Turtle, the SOS (same old stuff) thread after thread? Why do individual beliefs seem to offend you? What has theism/atheism done to spark your animosity?
you hit it right on the head ier…I don’t mind beliefs…what I don’t like is arrogance…and the theists and atheists are arrogant…I have a problem with arrogance…what is your problem ier
Are all theists/atheists arrogant, or just some?
I enjoyed reading my name there, turtle. 
I certainly know that I am in the dark - about most things…when we consider the enornimity of it all, I know nothing. I’m with Socrates in this.
But even the smallest little glimmer of light in the darkness can still be beautiful - how could we know we’re in the dark if we didn’t have that little glimmer?
you hit it right on the head ier…I don’t mind beliefs…what I don’t like is arrogance…and the theists and atheists are arrogant…I have a problem with arrogance…what is your problem ier
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Are all theists/atheists arrogant, or just some?
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do you have any problem with arrogance…
yes yes
turtle,
you are right…but that is only part of the story…atheist and theist believe something …they debate…they have no idea about ultimate reality…they might as well shut the fuck up…
Are you having a bad day, turtle? 
But I don’t agree that they need to shut up. The God concept to many is an important one. perhaps it’s because people need to know who they are, what their roots are. Maybe they don’t go along with evolution. But I will say that we can never really know or understand the god thingy except through our own projections of the universe and of ourselves. Possibly why - if there even IS something - because our brains and our consciousness have not developed enough to realize it. As an agnostic, I’m quite satisifed to realize that either way, nothing can be proved. But still, discussion is important.
Atheists and theists very often debate because they feel a need to prove something maybe also to themselves, there’s also a need to “win” the argument rather than discuss and persuade (in a good way). But then, what do I know. I stood in front of the oracle at Delphi the other day and the voice laughed right in my face told me to go away there’s nothing for you here - you arcturus do not even exist for me. You’re less than even a piece of sand. I laughed because I knew it was so true and I went away suddenly happy about that.
that makes sense…I just don’t like the arrogance
Turtle, your condemnation of their percieved arrogance is arrogant.
i also don’t like arrogance
when others have confidence in their understanding of the world, the immediate expression of their thoughts sometimes comes across as arrogant to me. seems to me like it comes from lack of ability or desire to take baby steps, and teach another why he/she is right. impatience perhaps
i think that I may too come across this way when expressing my own opinions, but it is difficult to know why other people don’t make the immediate logical jumps that I do. I try not to be arrogant, but it’s difficult to know if I am coming across this way.
Who is to judge?
if I reconsider/reexplain all of the logical deductions to get to my current thoughts/beliefs (in effort to explain my thoughts to another)… we might be here for a while
perhaps I like arrogance
and your comment on my talk may be arrogant
Exactly
What’s that got to do with believing or not believing in god(s)?
Turtle doesn’t like the tone of some arguments. I don’t like the tone of some arguments.
Judging by the tone of an on-line argument on a single subject, he goes on to accuse people he’s never met of arrogance.
Maybe he’s right and they are all arrogant; maybe he’s partly right and some are arrogant; then again maybe they simply feel that they must present a strong, definitive voice on this particular topic in order to counter a long-entrenched prejudice, and are meek and humble in real life.*
In any case, he goes on to state, categorically, that they’re both wrong.
Yet I don’t think turtle is arrogant; I think he uses a short-hand that’s easy to interpret as a high-hand.
(*I didn’t say it’s likely - just allowed for the possibility.)
you nailed me exactly…I am high-handed…I cannot stand the ignorance of atheists and theists in their usual arguments…they just go around in circles…more heat than light…
I tend to think that sometimes when we’re really into a thread or a subject and are posting, if we have a strong passion and interest towards it, we might come across as being or becoming arrogant about it, especially if we’re trying to persuade, but not to win points. Just to show what we think/feel/see. I know for myself that sometimes something just rises up in me. My intention is not to be arrogant but the passion kind of takes over and can seem like arrogance.
The things which we care less about - this doesn’t happen - we can be more stoic or devil may care about.