Here is where it becomes tricky.A reduction occurs where thos can only be described (represented )as a metaphor. The Ying Yang representation is closest to Irrealus’ (interpretation).
That part of our will places is into the representation , where the image of All inclusiveness becomes manifest
That manifestation shows our intent to become part of thay Being . Minus that yang of applied force the pure will has no object (s) to attach
None attachment pre supposes being as an existent, into which we are thrown into. The will to overcp me
The will to overcome this force existing between being and Being is the essential existential quality required for this leap into the appearance of Nothingness .
Amorphos; our individuality does exist outside of our awareness and it is our awareness that places it inside. At the point of death the inside and the outside become indescernible and a few have realized this prior to death
A priori Leibniz comes to mind here.
Yes, more or less. Actually, we misunderstand the means of communication and think that we communicate via different languages, but that is not true. There is only one language, and that is the language of mind/consciousness. Our invented languages are merely metaphors for those basic understandings of phenomena. But, we use our formal languages while communication because we use to learn communicating in that way from the starting, and the outer physical layer of us (human body) restricts soul to soul communication and that has to go through body.
Remember, animals can still communicate successfully with each other without using any formal languages.
Something of that sort. To be honest, i have not looked much into Egyptian mythology. Whatever more of less I know about that, it appears to me that basic concept is the same but not the details. I do not think that any other mythology got it right(or close to right) and details, except Sufism and Hindu Sant-Mat.
The term God is the most misunderstood one in all this talks. It plays out at two levels, or we can say that it issued for two entirely different stages. Secondly, the term of the God is merely a portfolio/post, not any particular entity.
As I said before, up to Sahastra-Sar, the 7th plane, which is consisted of thousands different spiritual realms, are the places where most of the spiritual entities are inhabited. They live there as a form of a soul, which also has a physical body, though their bodies are made of different subtle matter, yet it is physical in a sense. Every realm has one king or incharge. These incarges are called gods by us. That is the first category of the God. The souls come here and take births as a human. Whenever humanity needs directions, the prophets are used to send from these different planes and realms. These prophets mostly talk about their particular spiritual realm. That is why we see different religions prorogating different gods.
Secondly, these incharges of those realms, are not there forever. These seats are open to change. Means, someone else may sit on the thrown in the future, and become a god. It is almost like we have different prime ministers or presidents governing different countries. In other words, Obama is a an American citizen but all American citizens are not presidents, though they are as human and as American as Obama. The same is in the case of spiritual realms, souls living here and the incharges too. Now, the same souls come here too to live a life of humans. Means, each and every human is embedded with a God.
The second category of the God goes beyond 12th realm, to the cause/eternal realm. This category is the actual God. All monotheistic and deity based religions mostly talk about the first category of the Gods, up to 7th plane, like Abrahamic religions and Shavites, but some religions/subsets consider only beyond 12th plane as a place of God, like Buddhism, Sant-Mat and Sufism. Having said that, the first category of the religions also give hints of 12th plane but only in metaphors.
Like the God, Satan is also hugely misunderstood term too. He is not any sort of Hollywood villain.
There has to be something eternal. Nothing can manifest from the complete void, and that is what the true God is; Consciousness, in its original and raw form, which just a hint of mind, just enough to realize its existence.
It is mind/desire, which is included in the omnipotence of the consciousness, which creates all the creation. Once coming into the action, mind does not stop just at realizing its existence but desire for more. Its potential starts to materialize and things starts happening because of change, and lower spiritual realms come into existence. Every change brings more complexity and being embedded with the mind, consciousness has no option but go through and feel all that changes, which continuously bring more and more weight/wraps to it. This continues till the last realm( our human realm). The process bottoms out here and consciousness has nowhere to go but upwards only.
The beauty of the human realm is that it is only place in the whole system, from where an upward jump is possible. Otherwise, it is all one way down traffic from cause/eternal realm to here. Souls at the intermediate realms cannot go up from there. They have to come here and become a human to do that. That is precisely why the God asked angels to bow before the Adam. Angels cannot become a God but Adam can.
Except that the mind and consciousness are two different things. Or rather, Mind/desire is one of the omnipotent qualities of the consciousness. It is almost like a necessary intrusion. All this labyrinth is nothing but the journey of consciousness from being omnipotent to becoming omniscient, nothing else.
The problem with the mind/desire is that consciousness cannot become omniscient unless its(mind’s) potential does not materialize fully. But, when that happens, mind becomes uncontrollable and drags consciousness into trouble also with it, and no one can either stop or control mind, except itself. That is precisely the challenge.
I basically agree with I think it was Lev who said it can’t be done since there is no content for it and there is a difference between having had the experience of dying or being close to death and DEATH itself.
I remember one early morning I got up, made myself coffee, and then turned off the lights and just sat in the dark. I sometimes have a true vampire spirit.
There was no sound except that at times that sound was almost deafening at first. Then it subsided. It came to me that that could be a little glimpse of what death is. No sound, no images, complete darkness. No movement (though of course as a live human there was movement within me) but hardly any noticable movement. An almost complete dissolution and death of all sensations, qualia, thought, after a time. Although I realized that there were people around on one level, on another level there was no one just me a— nd my mind was for all intent and purposes on Off or Shut Down.
I mean, his real question WAS can you imagine being dead? We really can’t have the EXPERIENCE of it, at least I don’t think we can, but we can catch a glimmer but hardly one. And we can’t imagine if we’ve been dead before. I think it’s all ego to believe we can.
Arc, I wish I had the source but I will find it to this widely circulated Soviet experiment, where these bunch of so called criminals, albeit political dissidents I believe-were offered a chance to freedom.
The only catch was,that, they had to involve in an experiment in the deprivation of communication on all levels. No talking, primarily, or interacting.
The experiment was of a length specified, and those who broke the rules,mound have to go back to prison.
The end result was horrific, the participants were in the end reluctant to leave their isolation, went crazy.
They started to viscerate themselves, eating their body parts, etc.
The point to all this, is, that for the test subjects, the state they were in, became the norm, and ‘going outside’ became equivocated with death. The death became a metaphor, since, their memories may not have disengaged from the real prison waiting for them-if they failed the test.
The inside and outside worlds became reversed. The real sense of being contained in another restricted and controlled environment, from the one they were used to, and used to know, became an intangible state, bounded by a reversed line of demarcation. They literally imprisoned themselves in a labyrinth of suggested fear.
The vampire is only too keen to understand this,since his world is twisted as well, he lives in the night, while others during the day. Darkness and death can not be his freedom, since he will burn with the rise of the sun.
He has accepted death, and so, he is bound by its rules. It is life he cannot enter, and hence, he is immortal. Well until, he is mortally wounded.
Do you think awareness is critical to that individuality? I.e. The base of it and our subjectivity. In some sense for something to be subjective it must contain it’s own distinctiveness.
Zinnat
Thanks for all the information!
I am wondering about the metaphysics here; take 1 circle, this is our body we dwell in, but it has another circle which is the driver of said vehicle ~ the mind. Where there is a third circle - of another body, if we enter that then the mind circle is a driver of that vehicle and not the original one. In this sense it is impossible for the sphere of the mind to belong to two vehicles at once, so when we die and end up in another world and body, there would be no way to come back.
You see how i can only think of ‘spiritual’ journeys as of the mental realm, and that is why i don’t think the visions we have are of another world.
Consider this in terms of rebirth, you couldn’t be in your current body and go back to a previous body from another life, or move into a future body and come back to this one. So in real terms worlds and bodies are not interchangeable, but the mind [soul/spirit] is.
Ergo it is impossible to know another world, it is only possible to experience this world and mental worlds.
Without knowing them it is hard to say. To me from what i know they all say the same things in different terms, the main difference is that eastern religions weren’t halted by Christianity and so have continued to develop their ideas. Though most of those ideas are ancient.
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I assume it is region related, as we don’t see e.g. Anubis in hinduism. Its strange that people see the same kinds of worlds and yet don’t meet up in them ~ you don’t get egyptians or celts wandering into indian territory for example. This is another thing which for me backs up that they are mental realms and not real worlds like the universe, remembering that our experience of this world is mental, so a mental world can seem as real.
Its interesting what you said about levels of god.
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Yes, but as its the base of everything, that would be a ‘hint’ + of all things, no?
In druidism the underworld is the pre-world i.e. Where children come from, and one of its regions is called tirnanog ~ the land of eternal youth. This world is then the middle and there is another world above that. So yes, i agree that the spiritual realms are pre-earth world.
It would be nice if there is a purpose to it all, though i confess i don’t think there are.
Have you thought to just let be what ever it could be? Like opening a door rather than worry about what may be behind it. Ever watch the show Lets Make a Deal?
I am an integral part of the universe. As such, my body will join the exchange of matter to energy. It could be that my becoming energy can be seen as a metaphor for afterlife of some sort of consciousness. The metaphor seems to satisfy my need to explain the meaning of short life. But just as well, the white in my dream of death may indicate erasure–oblivion as well as inclusion in all that is. Being human, however, that is aware of death as inevitable, I tend to believe the metaphor. But I do not rule out the possibility that death ends all consciousness, even that mythologized as soul in transit.
Beautiful mythology–
The balm for stark biology.
Awareness is critical to individuality, yes, because it sets up the boundaries between degrees of
differentiation. Awareness serves two purposes, it limits the sense in which the differences ,through individuation, are apprehended ,while at the same
I feel Your doubt, Irrellus, however I don’t share it. The reason being, that, although we can visualize our own death, we can never give credence to these visuals. Visualization is an intrinsic metaphor for re-presentation, we try to image-ine, a state, such and such. As we would, could, and maybe were. But visualization one removed, becomes like a myth. It is far removed from our perceptions but with a backward glance, it is no longer a re-presentation of any thing. It is but a dream within a dream, an image conflated on many others forming some kind of message from far away, maybe even the beyond.
There , at least for me, is no doubt in the formula, that what is, is, & it is always what it is. It never, ever is that which is not. The contradiction between living and death, being and nothingness,is only an appearance, an image formed by these conflated and super imposed images, objectified, (like if myths had an objective). There is only the death of how we think of it, how we imagine it to be. This image formed by the superimposition of all the pictures we have recorded in our minds, are not what deat is. I think when we die, we lift the veil which limited our view, see it for the first time, for what it really is, only an image in our minds, connected to the idea of a boundary, an enclosure, a limitation between here alive and, there-death. The death lifts these self prescribed limitations.
Awareness is surely the base of consciousness, experience? Without being aware we cannot be experiencing or knowing a given thing. This is why i consider it to be the fundament of life and eternity.
In current usage,awareness and consciousness are very closely tied so as to imply difference in meaning in derivation of both terms. I am not going to do that, it’s beyond the scope or intent here, i think, only that ‘awareness’ implies a potential for consciousness. Awareness implies a lower quality recognition, such as one would expect to find in recognition of gross patterns of signs.
When it is said, ‘He was aware of the fire’, it implies that he became conscious of it by the smell of smoke, for instance. So it is not surprising, that people don’t express such a supposed event , by saying ‘He was conscious of the fire’. Awareness implies more objectivity, of having potential to become conscious.
Consciousness is more of a subjective proposition of a personal reaction to impersonal signals, such as the smell of smoke.
Awareness is the first state into which one wakes up from a deep sleep, before consciousness is totally realized. "I became aware that I was no longer levitating above this dark figure, whom I thought before (in my dream) to be someone else. Later as I became aware I was no longer dreaming, I realized it was me. I became fully conscious. (This, relating to the first post of the forum)
When I am on a ship on the high seas, looking at the vast dark deep blue ocean, the flying fish and the endless horizon, or I am in the bush, with only the sound of the bellbirds or kookaburras, the pure air, the hard red soil with its clumps of grasses, the clean running water in a river, its smooth grey stones and lush green plants, the sound of frogs, the very perfume of the air, it is then I realise I am alive, and if it were not possible to feel the heat of the sun, or smell the rain, this is how I imagine being dead is and I feel a sudden rush of overwhelming sadness.
The concept of “being dead” is an oxymoron. A being, in the human sense, refers to the life of the body. If the body is dead, there is no life, thus no “being”.
A person cannot actually ever imagine “being dead”, merely because to imagine would require being alive. One can imagine the universe existing without himself in it, but as he observes, he is imagining himself as alive and watching.
Having gone through that boring analysis, it is still useful at times to imagine that one is dead so as to convey to the inner mind the idea of extreme relaxation, similar to extreme meditation. During such an exercise, no urge to respond to anything is allowed. And that can be a bit dangerous as normal survival instincts can get shut off.
I would say that it had to be a great length of time to have come to that.
Like an animal caged up for so long that that’s all it knows.
Could there have been drugs given to these human beings?
I can’t imagine - started to viscerate themselves, eating their body parts, etc.
Aside from the so obvious abuse, they must have also been abused from the start in other ways, no?
But on another level, wouldn’t having to go back to the physical prison spell some kind of freedom to them, after the experience they had? Unless both “prisons” were equal.
Well, all I was saying was that I also love the dark, the darkness…the absence of light. But both give me an appreciation of both.
But darkness can be the freedom of the vampire - that’s his nature and his natural habitat. lol
It is the rising of the sun which becomes his death although vampires have evolved quite a bit lately. lol
I don’t agree with you insofar as the vampire not being able to enter into life - as an immortal, perhaps he can do it more abundantly because he realizes he has sooooooooooooo far to go until. But you can look at it another way. We’re all immortal in a sense until death comes to us - just as is the vampire - until his final death comes to him. Like everyone else, I suppose it depends on the individual how much the undead values life…just as it depends on he would does not have to live in darkness - how much he values life.
As far as technical problems are concerned, I don’t wish to specify, but if i were to specify to You, the nature of these difficulties, well, let it to suffice to say, without effecting an exaggeration, that they are at times quite challenging.
One of the technical issues consists in not being able to paraphrase. As a consequence of this, I will have to post two items, one regarding the prisoner experiment case, and the other, delving into the other part of Your inquiry.
The Soviet prisoners’ incarceration were I believe mostly of the political transgression type, where any little alleged offense were politicized and aggrandize do to the effect of becoming violations against the state.
The test run by party affiliated doctors conformed to party line protocol, and there was no chance for these test subjects to avail themselves to the prerogative of these doctors to let some of them out, initially, when they still emitted cries and protestations.
There were no drugs administered before, during or after the experiment. The length of stay was not extremely long, maybe only a matter of weeks.
The thing that happened after a critical time elapsed, that they started to disconnect from awareness of their previous incarceration, so the lost connection with what that entailed.
The profundity of questions of why, have never been resolved. I will try to dig up this experiment, and again, I can not attach it for same said ‘technical difficulties’
