I guess there are two types of sleep that might be referred to as ‘dreamless sleep’, one in which you awake feeling as though time as passed, the where you awake feeling as though you’ve just shut your eyes.
I was referring to the latter, and I’d argue that is not an experience.
I would argue the former is not really ‘dreamless’. I have awoken with the emotions left over from whatever I was experiencing as I slept; even though I can’t remember the contents of any dream, I can still feel what I was feeling, and I think that suggests that I was dreaming. And, relatedly, the experience is not always peaceful (it can be, but it depends).
The latter experience most clearly happens to me with anesthesia. And I wondered about this after being anesthetized for an upper endoscopy with fentanyl and Versed. I found out that Versed actually blocks your memory of the event. Surgeons and their assistants report that sometimes patients actually seem conscious during procedures when they are under anesthesia. They even answer questions and follow commands appropriately. But, afterward they have no memory of what went on. So, when you awake feeling as if no time has elapsed it could be due to memory loss upon waking rather than the absence of consciousness during sleep.
“They even answer questions and follow commands appropriately. But, afterward they have no memory of what went on.”
Proof that there is no immaterial enduring self over and beyond what the brain produces.
You’d not be able to say what happened to you during the period you are unable now to remember happened to YOU. To do so would be to claim that that you you were is something you are responsible for now or else we are talking about some other you.
You wouldn’t want to be sentenced for committing a murder you can’t remember committing, would you? But wait a minute… it was you… you did commit the murder. You’re responsible for what that body that your cartesian spirit inhabits does, i thought.
No? Oh, so then the cartesian you was what… somewhere else and not in your body when you commited the murder you don’t remember committing?
Which is it, buddy?
But you remember making the choice to steal a candy bar, claim responsibility for it, and willingly accept the consequences because that part of your brain has not allowed that block of memory to be erased. You feel like there’s a ‘you’ here that has endured over time, but there isn’t.
Only when the notion of an immaterial cartesian soul is in question does the human being become more than just a bundle of sense impressions and brain processes.
But when he’s on trial for a murder he doesn’t remember committing he doesn’t go quietly into the cell. Why not? I thought he was more than just a collection of brain states that at any given moment, could shut down and wipe whole blocks of time from memory. Suddenly, he’s Humean sense impressions again and no more responsible for the murder than anything else his brain determines him to do.
Yeah, that one’s an old gem. The memory problem and the Self. Gets the Cartesians every time. Next day, they’re right back at the same nonsense. In one ear and out the other.
Yeah, and booze doesen’t help either, guess that’s why re coverings are said to say: “ I’d rather be crazy the drunk” -though they may mean it at the time, the rate of re-cowering is slight to none.
Or it could be that you were conscious while under anesthesia and you forgot as a result of Versed or some other forgetting agent when you wake up. I’m not sure why you think you ruled out that possibility my friend. Right this minute there thousands of experiences which you don’t remember as you read this. Do you suppose you weren’t consciousness when you experienced them? Has it never occurred that you later remember an event that you earlier forgot? I’m acquainted with Hume’s argument against a continuous self existing over time. Yet, he doesn’t argue that consciousness was not present as its object—the “bundle of perceptions” occurred over time. So, yes, changing modes of consciousness occur normally every day and more profoundly under certain drug states like anesthesia. But, what makes you sure that consciousness is ever absent altogether rather than forgotten upon waking?
Yes, there is that)THAT( part which is an ego-less state of being, of what consists of the state that the material world is subsisting of, and that is the state of void that needs to be arrived consciously- but the other state is what Jesus says , that every hair of your head is counted.
These two states transform into one , transcend the differences, and
Drowning is a terrible way to die. It always puzzled me how Jesus was okay with that. Humans aren’t fully conscious. I try to avoid supporting the fish industry. There are much more humane ways to hunt fish.
You do say a lot of schizo nonsense but at your core, you are based. Like a diamond in a bunch of coal.
You ever armwrestle with someone, and they give you the sense that you’re winning when you’re really not? That’s what you do when you talk to him. And Meno.
They’re both like this once you TRY harder than you’ve ever tried in your life:
Sure ref’s aside and don’t mean referrers, the good cop bad cop subconscious dig, is an anomie, of such gravely blown up proportions that visual exploitative fragmentation, the Jung so much proposes to be a great prop, (if nothing else) that nihilism’s choice full of pathos and anxious flurry like your life depended on it like it does, admittedly setting a new low beyond the x and the beat generation,…..
And no reefers for that would certainly catapult irredentist, as Shirley just confessed, oh no, to be completely honest, on the other hand, beyond that blown bubble, the only redeeming quality is like antipasto to spaghetti westerns to all serious outlived talent to poke fun of western through a comic affected spaghetti western , a don giovanni, or racing through that immature brain crisscrossing through maddening wastelands in between the moon and New York City leading to the golden gate , the Rockies of his minds, (all the gold diggers in wagon trains remember their setting a milestone a new Route 66 of cosmic sit coms, .
And that bed rocked mother load of gem fully gleaming pathways from here to eternity, that the count left off. And here we are says he as if appeasing countless philosophy I love readers, reminiscent of dos passos, of Keats, in young New York dreamers most gone him soul surviving, Rimbaud, delmore schwartz saying I@ I envy those Hungarian boys in school, or that one hanging on till near precipice to declare the coming age of lonesome travelers that only a few more cern particles away, and they claimed his Buddhism to be just another act in a shipwreck of revival.
Say no more what’s under the delirium brought on and the prescription brought out because of it for it’s so pathetically boring and unsublime, it breaks open aged scabs better let undisturbed, but the Jung on says that’s worse, lot worse then watching thousand reruns of what’s my line.
I think most people have given up on “arm-wrestling” with Meno. The vast majority of people don’t seem to understand what he says. Same as with Jupiter123.
I don’t trust vaccines personally. I believe in the concept of vaccines I just don’t trust the companies putting in the ingredients are making the vaccines right.
So when someone doesn’t trust the business they get labelled a “science-denier” when i very much agree with the vaccines as a concept but question the ingredients.
Its very difficult to feel patriotic about helping my fellow countrymen’s businesses when I walk into a store and 99% of the food is trying to poison me with chemicals. RFK may put it right though.
There is always light ahead, but how and when we reach it are the two factors that determine One’s expediency in getting there.
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So.. make haste, not speed.. as they say.
They don’t want the ingredients being questioned.. how dare we question the ingredients!
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A Bulgarian Bolt cab driver -whom I had booked earlier today- thinks that the culprit allergen responsible for many a bad reaction from processed foods, are bugs.. who also said that up to 20% of ‘popular’ processed foods can be made up of these bugs - the unusual and extremely painful gut-trauma suffered by 1000s every week, just might be the effect of having unknowingly ingested bugs.
AI Overview
Yes, bug food allergies are a real concern.Insects, like crustaceans, contain proteins like tropomyosin and arginine kinase that can trigger allergic reactions in some individuals. These proteins are also found in shellfish, leading to cross-reactivity in people with crustacean allergies.
Intriguing… he is not saying living bugs on them but remnants of bugs? 20% seems like a large number though. I could see a few bugs making their way unto the factory floor, but how could it be as much as that, I wonder?
You might be right.iIn fact you are right. The fact is no one understands their own version of whatever needs to be said in response to any alleged rhetoric, and that is why the prime object of existence is to know one’s elf .
The flow matters more than the staid opinion, and why not just Go with it? That misunderstandings arise out of self deception, is not entirely out of range. The bugs we may be eating? On a meta fielded level, they too are creatures created in a flow of chain events, they literally are chained to their own bedrock of existence.
Has Ecmandu ever acknowledged the possibility that he may be schizophrenic or that his thoughts may not be in accord with reality?
If not, the odds they’ll build the skills to challenge and constrain delusional thoughts, is not hopeful. To my eye, Ec has been doubling down on a delusion of grandeur for years - classic schizophrenic tendency.
A delusion of grandeur is a type of delusion where a person holds a false belief about their own importance, abilities, or status, despite evidence to the contrary.
And if you can’t trust his judgement, you can’t trust his actions. For all we know, Ecmandu might not believe half the things he says. What has been established, is the unreliability of his actions.
