So you’re saying no other president in U.S. history broke the law? You must be saying that, because Trump is the FIRST president to be prosecuted.
It seems Joe broke the law by taking classified documents home and leaving them in his garage. So according to you we will prosecute Joe for breaking the law? When?
It’s going to take some time to process. The trial isn’t really over, there’s still sentencing and an inevitable appeal that will take it past the election. People will be watching Trump’s reaction, how he talks about it at his events. It’s early days.
A promising reaction was the immediate fall in the stock price of his media company: the people who put money behind their beliefs are betting this hurts his support.
OK, it was a low blow, non-sequitur and arguably ad hominem. @MagsJ, I apologize.
There’s a danger in both directions though. Sure, we don’t want political persecutions. But we also don’t want politicians who are above the law. We don’t want Biden to be able to just assassinate Trump. You don’t want that type of presidential immunity. Nor do we want the presidency to be something criminals seek because it insulates them from all their past misdeeds.
We definitely don’t want election fraud to be unpunishable so long as it works. This case stems from Trump’s deliberate (and successful) attempt to mislead the public by stifling unflattering news about him. If Stormy Daniels had told her story prior to the election, Trump might well have lost – ~160k people across Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Florida might well have changed their minds.
I agree it’s a dangerous precedent to prosecute a former president. But it would also be a dangerous precedent not to.
If you break the laws that apply to everyone and for which prison is the punishment, we put you in prison.
Isn’t it damning that none of the insane shit about Trump fazes Trump supporters? That’s weird right? Shouldn’t it be embarrassing? I’ve been watching this circus for nearly a decade, waiting for them to have their emperor-has-no-clothes moment, and they never do. You’re probably right that nothing I say will convince Trump supporters, because if they were amenable to facts or argument they would have been convinced long ago.
But then I notice the things you don’t say. You don’t say, “Trump didn’t do what he was convicted of doing”. You don’t talk about the facts or the law in this case. Even when you say “presidential immunity”, you don’t flesh out how that should apply. It seems like you don’t really want to talk about Trump at all. It seems like you’re a bit embarrassed by him.
The emperor has no clothes, the kid pointed it out, and Trump supporters are shouting at the kid. But increasingly, they’ve stopped saying they see the clothes.
I’m saying that any other president that breaks the law should be prosecuted.
Biden was investigated by a special counsel (who had previously served as US Attorney, and was nominated for that position by Trump), and he concluded that “no criminal charges are warranted in this matter.”
Which is similar to what happened with Mike Pence: he had improperly taken classified documents, he was investigated, and not criminal charges were warranted.
These investigations were good and necessary and if they’d found criminal conduct they absolutely should have led to a prosecution. But the law you cite requires knowledge and intent, which neither Biden nor Pence had.
Contrast a similar investigation into Donald Trump, which appears to have found the requisite knowledge and intent to warrant a criminal prosecution.
So now you’re saying “We should prosecute people who break the law.”
Lip service! The law was broken, and Joe KNOWINGLY AND WITH INTENT did take classified documents to his garage and leave them unsecured. To claim he didn’t know that was wrong and against the law is no f’n excuse. Ignorance of the law is no excuse! He should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and his clearance revoked! But that isn’t what we get. We get some BS excuse from some BS special counsel. We SHOULD prosecute Joe, but we didn’t. Let a jury decide if he is guilty or not. To not prosecute him when he clearly broke the law is hypocritical and makes the point that the system is corrupt! We let some people walk and prosecute others. Political hackery and it goes to show that some people are in fact above the law.
There’s a pretty big difference, I think, between Trumps classified documents case and Biden’s.
I think the difference between the Trump classified documents case, and the Biden classified documents case, is in the complete, continued belligerence showed by Trump compared against the immediate cooperation and rectification of the situation in Biden’s case.
They were asking Trump for months to return the documents. He refused. He continued to refuse, until they finally sent some agents to go get the documents themselves.
In contrast, it was Biden’s own staff which notified relevant authorities about the documents - he wasn’t hiding the fact that he had them, nor forcing his staff to try to hide the fact.
This is a big part of why Biden wasn’t being prosecuted - it’s the difference in behaviour between someone who at least looks like they made an honest mistake, vs someone who deliberately broke the law and refused to rectify the situation upon request.
I don’t know if Biden should be getting in legal trouble for it or not, but I do know the cases look extremley dissimilar for these reasons.
Oh, so now if you commit a crime and turn yourself in you are forgiven and not prosecuted?
He broke the f’n law and he needs to be prosecuted for his crime! Let a jury of his peers decide if he is guilty or not!
Prosecutors often drop cases if they feel confident that a jury would find the defendent not guilty - not just for democrat presidents, but in general.
So now prosecutors are jury mind readers. They know what a jury would do, do they? Again, that is corruption that happens to avoid prosecuting their buddy. The only thing worse than a politician is an elected official that has the power to sweep crimes under the rug for some, and crucify other crimes of their political rivalries.
That is not the finding of the investigation into this.
The law depends on knowledge and intent. Returning them as soon as he realized he had them is evidence of his lack of knowledge and intent.
And I note you aren’t harping on about Pence, who did the same thing.
Prosecutorial discretion has it’s problems, but it’s unavoidable. Just think for a second: why shouldn’t we charge you with this crime? We could, the prosecution could put together its best case, and we could let the jury decide. I would guess you’d get off, you’ve probably never been in the same room as a classified document. But what am I, some kind of jury mind reader? Take it to trial and see what 12 of your peers have to say about it!
Obviously this is an extreme example, I’m just pushing you to acknowledge that there have to be limits. Prosecutors can’t try every case. They can’t even try every case where there kinda maybe might have been a crime. They try cases where they are convinced by the evidence that there was a crime and that they can show a jury that there was a crime. They use their professional judgement to avoid wasting the court’s time. They have to do that because they have limited time, and the courts have limited time.
In the case of Biden and Pence, the prosecutors reviewed the evidence and did not think the government had enough to prove that any laws had been broken.
Well now that IQ45 is a convicted felon, what does that mean?
The very fact that this doesn’t stop him from running for president,
says how fucked up America is right now… a convicted felon
has no business ever running for a political office… little less
get any kind of support for running for that office… and yet, here
we are… driving home from work yesterday, I saw MAGA idiots
waving signs on an overpass, TRUMP 2024 and TRUMP WON.
were two of the signs that I saw…
One of the arguments these idiots put forward for IQ45 is that they
claim that he will return ‘‘respect’’ to America and yet, I don’t
see how a convicted felon can bring about any respect for America,
domestically or foreign…
The claim that this trial was a political trial is refuted by the fact that
not one democrat was a witness at this trial… every single witness
had dealings with IQ45 as either a business associate or worked for him,
Cohen for example… and I can’t see Cohen voting for Biden… for example…
The real test comes in November… do we actually want a convicted felon
as president of the United States? and what does it say about America
that it is possible that a convicted felon is voted in as president?
The fact is that come November, IQ45 may not even be able to vote
for himself, given he is a felon, and felons are not allowed to vote
in elections… the state of Florida will have to make a legal exception
to allow him to vote in Fl… which is rather funny because Fl. has been
one of the states that has been most aggressive banning felons from
voting… as part of their anti-minority agenda…
so think about this… what does it say about America that a convicted
felon can still run for president, does it say anything good at all,
or does it can be the end of America as we know it?
what does this mean for America?
Kropotkin
.
You’ve got real criminals running your country… the whole world knows it, but you.
Stay oblivious, it suits you.
The only thing that will change whether its Biden or Trump is how America’s decline will be managed, and the extent to which Wokism, Liberalism, will continue to be promoted across the world as a way of undermining all resistance to American hegemony.
Isolationism, and preparation to the coming multipolar world order, versus a continuation of US policies, since the end of WWII…via neo-con Zionists.
Max Blumenthal: How Zionism Hurts the Jews.
This is the basic dilemma of this internal conflict between two factions of the same Deep State…the same elites.
How to manage Empire decline and which strategy hurts the Jews the least?
Before this, and since Kennedy’s assassination, there was no discernible difference between this two-parti, uniparty, plutocratic system.
Kennedy was the last time a president tried to be a president…
Since then the Americans have been choosing between two puppets, with slightly different rhetoric…
This is how brainwashed they’ve become, after decades of Hollywood and US media propagandizing.
Nothing ever changes no matter who’s elected.
Just note. Israel has a health care system that covers all its cotizenry…not the US.
Now that the US is in decline, it is fragmenting…now there will be noticeable differences between the two candidates, because now the stakes are high for those running the nation - not the people.
You could have replied here rather than starting a new thread:
(Edit: Thank you for merging the thread into this one.)
Who are you referring to? What are their crimes?
He had both knowledge and intent. He knew he was taking classified documents home and he intended to do that. When he was granted a security clearance he was briefed and should have had to sign a document acknowledging the rules and conduct of holding such a clearance. Again, ignorance is no excuse. He INTENDED to take those documents home, and he did. That is a CRIME.
Pence should be prosecuted too! If you break the law you need to be prosecuted for your crimes. To pick and choose who gets prosecuted and who doesn’t is corruption at its finest!
BS! It’s corruption and you damn well know it. It is corruption that is built into the system to allow corrupt individuals to manipulate the system. It could be fixed by not allowing prosecutors to pick and choose which crimes are prosecuted and which ones aren’t. If you are caught red handed, or even turn yourself in later, admitting you have committed a crime then you need to be prosecuted, full stop!
Wrong again! I am retired Army with 20 years of active federal service in the U.S. Army. I held a Secret clearance and I know what is required to hold such a clearance. Joe broke the law and needs to be prosecuted! For some special committee to claim he did not break the law is total corruption!
Nonsense! Joe took classified material to his garage and that is a crime. He knowingly and willfully did that. He intended to do that. Turning himself in after the heat was turned up on that crime is no excuse.
I’m going to explain something very simple to you. There are beings who are in charge of the world who don’t hold office. I happen to be one of them. Usually I work on cosmic problems, but every once in a while, I’ll work with humans.
A very primitive inverse sex dimorphic species.
When I’m in cosmic courts we have to look at everything you do and if you’re doing the same thing trump is doing but in a different way.
The pussy grabber in chief is very appealing to people. He’s not good with words and he’s only successful because because he’s a pop culture icon. The retard who fires people.
He’s also a xenophobe. Lots of support there.
America was never great.
He saved trillions of dollars for the ultra rich as well.
Does this guy have a moral capacity?
Not really. Celebrities are going out of fashion, trump is experiencing the backlash of that change in the human species.
From the Special Counsel’s report:
Both when he served as vice president and when the Afghanistan documents were found in Mr. Biden’s Delaware garage in 2022, his possession of them in his Delaware home was not a basis for prosecution because as vice president and president, he had authority to keep classified documents in his home.
[W]e believe [Mr. Biden] was mistaken about what the law permits, but this view finds some support in historical practice. The clearest example is President Reagan, who left the White House in 1989 with eight years’ worth of handwritten diaries, which he appears to have kept at his California home even though they contained Top Secret information. During criminal litigation involving a former Reagan administration official in 1989 and 1990, the Department of Justice stated in public court filings that the “currently classified” diaries were Mr. Reagan’s “personal records.” Yet we know of no steps the Department or other agencies took to investigate Mr. Reagan for mishandling classified information or to retrieve or secure his diaries. Most jurors would likely find evidence of this precedent and Mr. Biden’s claimed reliance on it, which we expect would be admitted at trial, to be compelling evidence that Mr. Biden did not act willfully.
Take a look at the report, it does not support your claims about the facts or the law.
Fair enough, it’s a consistent position to say that all three of them should be prosecuted. Though, I’d still make distinctions between their actions, knowledge, and intent.
It can be and often is, but I think it’s less likely to be corrupt in this case, because of how much attention was put on these cases. Corruption is more likely with local prosecutors, because there is less oversight. Well publicized cases concerning high profile suspects with intense scrutiny from a politically divided Congress – that all serves as a significant check on discretion.
Most people say the outcome of former President Donald Trump’s hush-money trial in New York will not have an impact on their vote in the 2024 presidential election, but it could have an effect on some key groups. Views of both Trump and Biden are simply very locked-in.
It wasn’t a low blow, lol, it was a Freudian slip.
You want Trump prosecuted because of his policies, not because of any crimes, of which the ones you want to accuse him of change with the seasons.
It’s the dishonesty, Carman. 8 years ago, I would have died by “I disagree with your opinion but will fight to the death to protect your right to have it” to “yeah fuck it if you give me a gun I’d kill some of the vermin.”
That’s me, some foreigner with really barely much at stake. Imagine the people in your country with a legit gripe.
We are so past giving a shit, none of your words mean anything, you have no credibility.
You are like every authoritarian thug from Venezuela to Iran, prosecute your enemies into oblivion, cancel oposition, eliminate dissent.
Keep pushing, fascists. Lol, keep pushing.
Of course, peaceful would be better.
Nice and legal and constitutional. Fair. Fuck it, mostly fair will do.
Which is another hilarious thing, because of his virgin (to elected office) innocence and his knowledge of the huge magnifying glass on his back, his term was probably one of the legally cleanest in US presidential history.
This looks a lot like projection when neither you nor any other Trump supporter in this thread has said anything about what he was accused of in this case.
The emperor has no clothes.