Convicted Felon Donald J. Trump

Ur PrOjEcTiNgG.

Be a man for God’s sake.

It’s the stupidest charge I’ve heard in years lol hahaha what am I projecting?

Universities rot minds.

My advice to you is to meet your political opponents on the political field.

If you keep trying this vein of just trying to make any opponents you don’t like illegal, I doubt it will turn out well for you.

All I’m saying.

But probably I’m just saying it to the thin air around me, because somebody with this much dishonesty, well, there was never a conversation here to begin with.

A symbolic conversation, we’ll call it, lol.

Good luck with it.

It did inspire me to play this beautiful game:

|1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 { C44 Scotch Game } d6 4. dxe5 Nxe5 5. Be2 Nf6 6. Nc3 Bg4 7. Nxe5 Bxe2 8. Qxe2 dxe5 9. O-O Bc5 10. Qb5+ Nd7 11. Qxb7 O-O 12. Qc6 Bd4 13. Rd1 Qe7 14. Nd5 Qd6 15. Qxc7 Qxc7 16. Nxc7 Rac8 17. Nd5 Rxc2 18. Rb1 Rxf2 19. Rxd4 Rxg2+ 20. Kxg2 exd4 21. Bf4 Nc5 22. Kf3 Rd8 23. Nb4 Re8 24. e5 Ne6 25. Bg3 Rd8 26. Rd1 Rc8 27. Bf2 Rc4 28. a3 a5 29. Nd5 Rc2 30. b4 axb4 31. axb4 Ng5+ 32. Kg4 Rxf2 33. Kxg5 h6+ 34. Kg4 Rxh2 35. Rxd4 h5+ 36. Kg3 Rb2 37. Nf4 g6 38. Nd5 Kg7 39. Kf3 g5 40. Nf6 Rb3+ 41. Ke4 h4 42. Nd5 h3 43. Rd2 g4 44. Ne3 Rxb4+ 45. Kf5 g3 46. Ng4 g2 47. Rd1 Rxg4 48. Kxg4 h2 49. Kg3 h1=Q 50. Rxh1 gxh1=Q { White resigns. } 0-1|

Post removed: Off topic.

Trump bribed someone to win an election.

If he hadn’t bribed stormy, and he won the election. There’d have been no crime.

There are bigger issues about how secure the voting system is.

My home state has mail in ballots. A very secure system.

The stakes are high very high, during WW 2 the mafia was called up and helped the war effort in Italy, when the interests of a great country are at risk then those overshadow internal crimes which although are concerning, but the basic psychological projectiles work in the real theatres of international conflict,

What makes America great ? (Again) the real strength of society that can stand with all illusions cut away.

Maybe if we just all start putting our shopping carts back where they belong, they’ll stop trying to put people in charge of us like we’re untrainable, and we can just go about our business barely making ends meet.

I mean those of us who don’t live with our parents, of course. Mother Nature included. Huge inheritance we didn’t earn included. Privilege we didn’t earn included. Stuff like that included.

To arguments like this, I like to point out that Hitler breathed.

Yes, authoritarian governments prosecute their political opponents. It doesn’t follow from that that every prosecution of a former president is authoritarian. In a society where laws are fairly applied to every citizen and no one is above the law, a former president who has broken the law will be prosecuted. The prosecution and conviction of a former president is consistent with both despotic authoritarianism and rule of law.

To decide which this is, you need to look at the facts of the case. A despotic authoritarian doesn’t care about the rule of law, they will prosecute their opponents for disloyalty or sedition, or make a new law and apply it retroactively. There won’t be a trial, or the trial will be behind closed doors, or it will be before a military tribunal.

In a society that follows a rule of law, the prosecution will be for a concrete crime, established long before the criminal acts, regularly applied uncontroversially to people other than the sitting president’s political rivals. The trial will be public, it will follow the rules established for the trial of any crime. The defendant will have the opportunity to confront the evidence and witnesses against him, to introduce his own evidence and witnesses in his defense. And his guilt or innocence will be decided by an impartial jury.

That’s why the fact that no one is defending Trump’s actions is so significant: the prosecution of a former president is only improper if it’s not a fair trial for an actual violation of the law. And no one is willing to make that claim.

I wouldn’t expect many people to switch from Trump to Biden, but I would not be surprised to see an effect on turnout of Trump voters. They’re locked-in, it could affect enthusiasm.

The direction of the effect remains to be seen.

Which society is that? Certainly not the United States of America. Laws fairly applied? BS! Former presidents who break the law will be prosecuted? BS! Other than Trump they all got away with their crimes. Not one other former president was prosecuted. Not one!

So this is a step in the right direction then, yeah?

1 Like

It is. Now for the rest of them…

Next up: Joe Biden.

Then the thousands of child molesting Priests. What ever happened to them in this “society where laws are fairly applied to every citizen?” What a bunch of BS!

No, you’re right, I meant a hypothetical society with a fair and just system of laws. The US is deeply flawed, its laws are often unfair, both facially and as applied.

And it does have authoritarian elements in its law and its government, but it not the hypothetical authoritarian state I describe either.

But it matters that this trial and conviction are compatible with a hypothetical just and fair society, because so much is being made of how it’s compatible with a corrupt authoritarian dictatorship. The people who oppose Trump’s conviction need to say more to make the case that this is better evidence of authoritarianism than justice.

Biden should be investigated every time he’s credibly accused or reasonably suspected of criminal conduct. But every investigation does not warrant a trial. If the investigators determine the evidence is insufficient to support the conclusion that Biden broke the law, there should not be a trial.

I’m strongly in favor of more investigations. Requiring that each investigation lead to a trial would have the opposite effect.

That’s the kind of case where prosecutorial discretion goes badly awry: local prosecutors investigating local priests, significant and shared community ties, shared religious affiliations, a strong and well-connected institution interested in protecting the wrongdoer, powerless victims who can’t advocate for themselves, icky fact patterns that most people don’t want to think about and a lot of people would rather ignore. It’s a case study in what to look out for to control prosecutorial discretion (and note that it’s very different from the Biden documents case; there wasn’t a Special Counsel or a public report on the investigation at the time the crimes were committed).

Sadly many of the cases were deferred long enough that there’s no longer recourse under the criminal law because the relevant statute of limitations has expired. Evidence goes stale, memories become unreliable, a fair trial becomes impossible. In those cases, civil remedies (i.e. lawsuits) often provide a backstop, and in the case of the Catholic Church that was what happened.

There is no perfect law. A law that is rigid and uniform will always miss some bad acts. A law that is flexible will be stretched to reach unfair results. A system that protects individual rights will be forced to let some wrongdoers go. A system that is committed to prosecuting every wrongdoer will destroy the lives of many innocents along the way.

For all its flaws, the US legal system is pretty good. It’s not perfect, it can be improved, but it’s among the best the world has known (though that’s not a very high bar). And treating it as beyond saving does nothing to fix its flaws.

Again, this is the problem and why so many Trump supporters are outraged over Trump being put on trial. Trump is charged and put on trial for mishandling and storage of classified documents, but Joe is forgiven for his crimes. No it is not about what happened after the crime, it is about the crime itself, the mishandling of classified documents. To put Trump on trial and excuse Joe IS THE PROBLEM that Trump supporters have and are justified when they say the system is corrupt. It is total corruption that Joe’s case is never heard by a jury but Trump has to go to trial. It is not for some “special committee” to decide guilt or innocence it is for a jury to decide. The crime was committed and there is documented evidence that Joe had unsecured classified documents in his garage. To excuse that is outright corruption!

The crime is not “mishandling of classified documents”. The crime is knowingly removing them without authority, and with the intent to retain them in an unauthorized location. If someone does have authority, if the location is authorized, if they were taken or retained inadvertently, it is not a crime.

More accurately:

  • Both Trump and Biden were investigated for mishandling of classified documents.
  • Those investigations found different facts.
  • Based on those differing facts, prosecutors treated the cases differently.
    • The investigation of Trump’s mishandling of classified documents revealed evidence of a crime.
    • The investigation of Biden’s mishandling of classified documents did not.

You’re right that this is why Trump supporters are outraged. You and they are wrong about the law.

So you’re saying Joe had authority to remove them? Maybe you’re saying he didn’t know he was removing them? You’re saying he didn’t intend to retain them in his garage, or that he thought his garage was an authorized location?

And he would be proud of you, too.

That’s what the investigation report says: as president or vice president, he had authority to remove them and store them at his home. If he took them while VP and inadvertently retained them after leaving office, that would not be intentional. And he reasonably believed he was authorized to have some of them after leaving office (and the report concedes that he may be right).

Nobody is defending Trump for the same reason you won’t defend against the obvious fact that you are a rapist.

Yes lol, a step in the right direction of prosecuting your political oponents out of political life.

Until you seriously present a case to prosecute a former president whose politics you like.

You clown.

So you are claiming ignorance of the law is an excuse?

Show me where it is authorized for someone, ANYONE to store highly sensitive classified documents in their unsecured garage. SHOW ME! You would have to be dumb as a box of rocks to believe that you can just put our national secrets in your garage and leave them there and that would be authorized. Are you f’n kidding me?

Ignorance of the law is no excuse and for some BS committee to sweep that under the rug is total BS!

Interesting to point out here is that the reason these clowns hang so tightly to these political prosecutions is not to actually try to convince anyone. They know that is not happening nor will happen.

It is to convince themselves, to reinforce their own sense of moral justice. It is fodder for the followers.

Because they know that, the very moment they try to take Trump on on the political stage, they will lose.

Handily.