Determinism

Philosophy Forums Philosophy
4601

There are a few reasons.

One is that they are from broken homes and unstable family dynamics.
They want ‘peace’ because it was denied to them during their formative years.
They are emotionally and mentally disturbed.
EDIT Many of them have/had physcially and sexually abusive parents,
And want to “fix” others inversely to how they have been (pyshcologically) broken by those parents.

Second is that they are ill-formed, with garbage genetics, “genetic pollution”.
This coincides with above, being mentally disturbed.
Their lowered intellects finds the world “too chaotic”, it’s frightening.
They’ve always needed a Guardian to shield them, hence their Totalitarian desire for “Authorities”, Tyranny.

Third, because of their lowered intellect, unstable rearing, and desire for Authority…
They stumble across Abrahamism; most are indoctrinated along with their rearing.
These multiple factors combine into One insatiable drive for “Love” and “Peace”.

They have never found such ‘peace’ on their own, of their own Responsibility or Reasoning.
They abandoned this, at young ages. So, they seek out “higher authority”, Religion,
The “Religion of Love” and absolute abandonment, as a result.

4602

I suspect this OP has all of the factors I listed, and almost certainly has a history of severe parental abuse.

4603

Your psychobabble is just that! So anyone who has a drive to create a more peaceful world must have had unstable rearing or deep psychological issues? Just because world peace sounds impossible, your skepticism is preventing you from being a clearheaded thinker! So you are saying that anyone who believes that peace and brotherhood between man and man is possible has to be mentally disturbed and of low intellect?

Totalitarian desire for authority? Where in the hell did you get this from? This new world of which I speak removes all authoritarianism and authority. You are so very ignorant it’s not even worth debating with you.

4604

Why do you hate your father?
What did he do to you?

4605

This is so funny to me. What’s the discovery Unwrong? Prove to me you know what this thread is about?

4606

I do know what it’s about. Your insatiable drive, your determination to make the world Peace and Love, because of what was taken from you as a young girl.

Tell me about your father.

4607

Stop with the psychoanalysis.

She hasn’t figured out yet that everyone needs their own universe.

Your psychoanalysis is as much a control mechanism as hers in a co-shared reality.

She is delusional… but so are you.

Existence isn’t working.

Expect all forms of delusions and acting out because of it.

4608

Her psychosis around “Peace and Love” is similar to other neuroses on this forum, including yours Ecmandu.
But this is her thread, and so her psychosis takes precedent here, not yours.

I do not believe in Peace and Love. Sometimes War and Hate is needed. Like when criminals and thieves seek to do harm against you.

Pretty words will not deter them; that is fantasy land. Your delusions, and hers, are fantasy, and dangerous.

4609

Oh no.

Self defense and defense of others is vital in this plan.

We need a new plan.

Fortunately, for me, I’ve never been in a situation where I’ve never had to do any of these things physically…

Very fortunate.

I always think of myself as a 120 year old man in a bed with a bed-pan that nurses recycle my shit with.

And that’s when I knew:

It’s about the power of your mind. Not your fists.

4610

Desire for peace and love has nothing to do with daddy issues. It is a feminine thing.
Female nature needs stable environments to feel safe enough to have children and to ween them until they can fend for themsleves…so they are naturally drawn to power, and dedicate themselves to maintaining peace and group cohesion - the status quo.
It’s instinctive: attraction/repulsion…friction.
It is, in fact, rebelliousness which is the exception to the rule. Here we may find daddy issues, or females with high testosterone levels, or high IQ women, who sense a shift in power and want to be on the forefront of this change - this trend.
Peace loving women are a dime a dozen.

Now, why would males dream of such a utopia…that’s another subject, considering the fact that peace is nowhere to be found…and what we call peace is relative peace between nation-states…an absence of hot conflicts when all kinds of conflicts are occurring all the time.

I said inter-action…that is conflict.
Existence is agon, and life becomes conscious of this constant agon. Heraclitus called it warfare…the father of all things.
Warfare, even the conventional kind, is when great feats and advancements occur. Peace promotes stagnation. No need no deed. Necessity is the mother of invention.
They say crocodiles haven’t evolved much for hundreds of thousands of years…why?
Because they didn’t have to…there was no stress, no necessity.
They found a niche and nothing forced them to change.

To bring it into controversial topics…why did the Negroes stagnate, and did not advance much, when tribes that were forced out of Africa into less hospitable areas evolved quickly? Because they had to.
Do, or Die.
Stress evolves organisms.
How did Nietzsche put it…“what does not kill me…”
Tribes that were to become Europeans were brought to the brink of extinction, during the Ice Age…those who survived were the strongest and cleverest.
And this is why their progeny returned to Africa as conquerors when the Africans were still living the easy life…because they did not have to evolve, they were not stressed as severely as European tribes.

How do we build muscle?
By sitting around resting? That atrophies muscle. We build muscle by stressing it, by damaging it, forcing it to grow, and become stronger, thicker.
Sad but true.
You people are living in Disney Land…or Mary Land.

You think I like these truths?
That I prefer them?
I don’t…but my motive is to see…whereas yours is to protect, to hide, to not see…to be comfortable.

4611

.

This is not about pretty words. Obviously you don’t know what the discovery is or you would have answered. If you had given it half a chance, you probably would have got something out of it.

For this discovery to be valid and sound, his premises must lead to an accurate conclusion. This, and only this, will determine whether he was right, not your ridiculous psychoanalysis of me.

4612

I agree with that. But peacegirl’s drive, and authentic belief that she can change anything, is the unusual psychosis.
It sets her apart from other females – females who concern themselves with primping and preening, honing their sexuality.

Peacegirl seems stunted; she admits as such near the beginning of this thread.
Her drive to “end conflict” strikes me as a psychological wound.
Most females are not obsessed about peace and love, I mean.

4613

If you don’t want to answer as to your past and motivations, so be it.
But this response exposes your intellectual dishonesty.
You expect me to be a mind-reader, and “know the answer” (your answer), otherwise my perspective is invalid.

This defense-mechanism signals even worse than I suspected.
I made some progress into this thread, but realized it’s a waste of time.

You have deeper issues, personally, that you attach to your philosophical understanding of “Determinism”.
After all, how torturous must life be, to those brought into the world by abusive parents, abused as children?
And they are then told that it was “Determined” to be so?

It’s brutal, and cruel, much more than most people realize.

But if you are that deeply scarred, then there’s not much I would do for you.

4614

Lorikeet,

You are trapped. Your mind hasn’t expanded outside evolutionary biology.

You see nothing compared to people like me.

And, I must admit, it makes you feel left out.

Like you’re not part of an exclusive club.

I seriously, and I kid you not, do more work in an hour pacing and smoking a few cigarettes than you’ve done your whole life. All of it. Your whole life.

4615

I agree that stress (the good kind, not the toxic kind) helps us to grow and accomplish. What do you think this author did, sit on his laurels? He thought outside of the box which took a lot of thought, studying, and energy. We are constantly developing and this won’t stop just because we find a better way to live. This is not about not using one’s talents to move our world even farther. In fact, it will give us much more opportunity to catapult our world to even higher heights. Look at technology. There is no telling what new advances will be discovered. The only difference is that the technologies will never be used to exploit others.

4616

How “fair” is it to the gazelle taken down by lions,
While the rest of the herd runs away, and does not turn to help?
Life is “not fair!” the young children scream.

And because it is not fair, you have the brazen gall to “make it so”.
But you have no understanding of Nature, do you?

Just like Ecmandu here, and peacegirl, your desire to
“Change the world” will amount to nothing.

Because you have no understanding of Nature.

Your “Goodness”, your morality, will not fill the stomach of the Lions.

You cannot stop their Instinct to Hunt. Not even after they are domesticated/emasculated into House Cats…

4617

I understand what PG is saying to a certain extent…

We have no choice but to pick the best reality.

I am the choice of the best reality.

So with infinite knowledge… why didn’t we pick it before?

She has no answers.

I have no answers either.

4618

If you don’t want to answer as to your past and motivations, so be it.
But this response exposes your intellectual dishonesty.

Peacegirl: What past motivation Unwrong are you talking about?

Unwrong: You expect me to be a mind-reader, and “know the answer” (your answer), otherwise my perspective is invalid.

Peacegirl: Your perspective IS invalid. Who asked you to be a mind-reader?

Unwrong: This defense-mechanism signals even worse than I suspected.
I made some progress into this thread, but realized it’s a waste of time.

Peacegirl: What defense mechanism. You’re making shit up.

Unwrong: You have deeper issues, personally, that you attach to your philosophical understanding of “Determinism”.
After all, how torturous must life be, to those brought into the world by abusive parents, abused as children?
And they are then told that it was “Determined” to be so?

Peacegirl: I was never abused Unwrong. I had loving parents. It’s true that everything that has already happened had to happen. That does not mean the same trajectory has to continue. This is not about excusing wrongdoing (which only means ‘hurt); it is about preventing these hurts. Isn’t it better to prevent these behaviors than to deal with the aftermath?

Unwrong: It’s brutal, and cruel, much more than most people realize.

But if you are that deeply scarred, then there’s not much I would do for you.

Peacegirl: Maybe you are projecting, I don’t know.

4619

who ever heard of child abuse before birth, inter-uthero? Is it conceivable? That would take much of the ballast out of the abortion issue.

Especially when the esoteric cycle of birth-death is concerned. That reduces this conversnation at this end to a needless, hypothetical absurdity.

Sorry guys.

4620

You disagree with me. Argument is not peaceful. I guess you’re not into peace after all.