Dualistic Theory.

Philosophy Forums Religion and Spirituality
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Hello all, new here, so please don’t eat me. I taste better after marinating a bit anyway. Read through the replies. You folks are smart and I look forward to hearing more from you. My comments only address the OP, and are designed to share my personal perspective.

The OP has passed a judgment upon the observable universe. That being, it is dull and unintelligent. Yet within this universe, we find enough intelligence present to ask and answer to this very question. As well, it is intelligence that forms opinions of dullness, and likewise the fabulous. Therefor I reject the initial premise as invalid.

The second issue presented by the OP is concerned of pureness and perfection. And here is where my personal perspective may offer a few insights.

From the Biblical perspective, yet we may translate to other ancient teachings as well, the God being is supposedly one of pureness and perfection, dwelling in a realm of pureness and perfection (PP). To avoid a semantics battle, let me clarify that realm as an immaterial one, sans common notions of energy/matter space/time. So when I say dwells within, that is only for the sake of communication. Our language breaks down when discussing these notions. We must metaphorically cast physical attributes upon this immaterial realm, simply to converse with one another about it. I do not suppose that an immaterial realm has real physical properties of within or without. This does in no way diminish its PP, for an argument could be made in line with the OP that not having these properties is one of the very qualifications to be PP.

Therefor, from a Biblical perspective, God, in keeping with PP, grants faculties for self expression, which includes free will, ultimately leading to the ability for pride. Yet pride, being a faculty of self worship, is unfit for PP. What to do? A creation from PP has lead to an expression unfit for PP. Quite the paradox, for PP may not be tainted with impurity and imperfection, lest it resign its designation of PP.

Solution: Create a new realm where pride may be fully expressed, yet not suffer the effects of PP upon it, and not have the ability to taint PP. Bam! The Big Bang creates a physical realm where pride may be expressed. And since this physical realm (PR… hmmm public relations… pride) was created by PP, then PR must be the perfection of a realm where PR could exist and manifest to its fullest potentiality.

To break this down to first principles, we must determine exactly what pride is. I propose it is a form of Entropy. It is noise on the line preventing the intended signal from being transmitted and received effectively. It deceives against the original message. There is no room for it to exist within PP.

Just as sugar and cream taint the purity of a cup of jo, infecting it, tainting its purity of being the essence of jo, so must pride taint the purity of PP.

Our universe is entropic, built upon properties of decay. Nothing within it may last eternal. It is one giant pool of noise. Yet there is a caveat.

Tough entropic pride may not invade the PP, in staying true to being PP, then PP must have opportunity to be expressed within PR. How may this be accomplished? Answer: Life.

Life requires purity of signal transmission and reception. It is the basic foundation of DNA/RNA communication protocols. The code, and all codes, represent the essence of purity that comes from each and every thought. Information Theory teaches us that the intention is to receive the exact transmission that was intended by the original author. And has calculated the proper protocols necessary to allow for Information Entropy. Every communication must suffer the effects of Information Entropy upon the transmitted signal. But system backups such as noise reduction, duplication, and error correction ensure that the message received will retain enough of the essence of intended meaning from the original transmitted signal. The message received is never perfect to the original, yet if the protocols are successful, we may confidently assert that the essence of meaning has indeed been communicated successfully.

Why must we concern ourselves with Information Entropy in the first place? Because we live and express ourselves in an imperfect PR, not the PP. We cannot communicate with one another outside of energy/matter space/time. We do not possess the faculties of directly connecting thoughts to one another. We must use a tool. This tool is called Code. And since Code is a physical object made of energy/matter and always exists at a specific space/time coordinate, then Code is subject to the forces of an Entropic Universe. Thus we must account for Information Entropy in every communication.

This fulfills the notion of Dualism. For Code always represents some thing other than itself. Code represents Thought. It is a physical expression of an immaterial agent. Code is a physical tool. Code is a material lens that allows us to view the immaterial realm of Thought. We cannot share thoughts with one another by any other known mechanism.

Code requires Dualism. It is an image/object relationship. And is the reasoning behind the old phrase, The Medium is not the Message.

With kind regards.

22

…and “Don’t confuse the Map with the Terrain”. It makes you wonder why so many people do that these days.

That was a well thought out thesis. I’m betting that you have heard the phrase, “you think too much” more than once. But then, I like for people to think (too much or not as long as accuracy is considered). :slight_smile:

23

QuinticNon

James Saint where are your manners ?

QuinticNon , Please allow me to be the first to welcome Welcome welcome you .

Let me assure you there is no risk of you getting eaten. banish the thought and have a seat please.

Today is Saturday and the catholic church bless its heart said we should only eat fish on Friday. we only eat meat on the rest of the week days

Everyone here is vegetarian. that big pot over there the size of a person it is for cooking porridge .

come. come in and lock the door and give me the keys . I will keep it with me to make sure no one opens the door and let in the cannibals .

Oh we have tradition here btw… everyone one gets a nick name. how would you like Tasty Morsel for your nick name ? it means you’re not to be eaten.

allow me to thank you for bringing up thermodynamics into the discussion. Thanks a million for making our life simpler .in appreciation i want you to skip the next line .

Pssssssssssssst Monk26 , grab him and put in him the pot .we are having us a feast today .we have plenty food.

I have a thing or two in response to your input . briefly the ancient way is actually safer . there the duality is not subject to this world of ours as your take seems to imply .

I have mentioned in one of the posts that an angel appeared to the prophet in Babylon and said to him…Yahweh is holy holy. He repeated it for emphasis. I explained that holy in Hebrew means "other’ . so Yahweh is other than anything in this world.

This distinction is pretty iron clad. You simply can’t kill me based on any interpretation you might have of reality including yours because Yahweh is other than it whereas you can change that reality of yours depending on the next scientific theory that will over ride yours … such is the life with science .

This is just a brief response that in no way does justice to your take. because fo all intentions and purposes you could be talking about the other too. you seem to say as much . but are you really?

But time is pressing and I want to continue from where I have left off and then I will be back and try to acquit myself in a manner deserving of your input .and once again thanks a million for the law of conversation of energy . I have a story to tell in that connection . its about my son . I sold many a cow to pay for his education and he came back and told us all about Steve Hawkins and left the whole village scratching their heads. Took many ingestions of herbs to stabilize the people. Business boomed for me . well done my boy I thought.

But let me just finish my take on Jesus teaching about a reality without dualities .

Now the other duality is the lost sheep of Israel. This is the lost and the straight. This the Jew and gentile , Christians and Jews , Hindus , Muslims, Buddhist , atheist and pagans, animists and and and . the duality to do with the religion as a force of division.

The significance of the duality in play . just calculate , or try if you can , the millions upon millions who have been killed because of religions starting from the beginning before even the advent of the religions that are affirmed today .great cruelty and misery and suffering. doesn’t seem to want to stop.

The gentile woman and Jesus disciples essentially denied that duality . that duality was not going to stand in the way between her and her daughter getting well. Help help help me Jesus. First she starts on Jesus’s disciples . they tell her to take a hike. Instead she cries unto them just as the Jews cried unto god in their days of trials and tribulation in Egypt . so they passed the buck to Jesus . you send her away they tell him. Jesus is not convinced . he decided to test . he had to. He came but he came invited . the Jews were crying out messiah come and messiah please come. Beside there was a contract between Yahweh and the Jews .so there is the issue of imposition of Jesus imposing on others , that is on the non Jews. The issue to do with interference with other life forms as in Star trek the enterprise to go where no man has gone before . but neither his disciples or the gentile woman is having any of it .so what if its imposition . shove that duality too as well as the religion as a distinction .

Then Jesus goes for the big one . the other more troubling duality that is behind all the killing and cruelties and sufferings . he says to her he can’t give the bread of the children to the dogs. The gentile woman is not impressed . she counters and says the dogs do get the bread tool. So the duality doesn’t hold .

Then Jesus magnificently ends the testing . the women has done enough. the rest is his to say. It’s the business of the god –man and no one else . He denies the ultimate duality . Note he doesn’t tell her okay I will heal your daughter . instead he tells…it will be done as you desire . so the duality between the will of man and god is removed through faith in the Christ , through faith that the dualities are nothing but an illusion and should be denied as the way to salvation .

i said magnificently because in the background there is another ultimate opposite , man and woman. Jesus as a man and the gentile as a woman and not only that but as mother too.

frankly the man or god is not born yet who can get around women and their big mouth. That’s why when my wives come to me and ask me all my effort is try to find a way out because i can’t say no. and when you are dealing with a mother forget it . just forget it and give in. . I have seen it with my own eyes. a little mother deer defending its child against the lion. fact of the matter Jesus is very okay guy . he just like to be slick . you always watch out for that . because to him we are kind of slow on the take. he is something of a comedian . when i read the new testament i can’t help cracking up from reading what he he says . he has one hell of a sense of humor . and its good because it means he likes us . so we should like him back.

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In the words of the great prophet George Thorogood, “Yeah, everybody slick. Now you slick too”.

A characteristic to be encouraged, for the Truth is earned. Is it not peeled away one thin translucent layer at a time? Does not approaching its core give us reason to cry? Though the cry is joyful for some, it is horrible for most.

Joyful for the woman you speak of. For even she understood that a crumb of Truth is better than a loaf of Lies. In those crumbs, I pray she understood the dualistic metaphor. For truly we must acknowledge, that her metaphor of falling crumbs from a masters table only referred to the concept. It depicted the concept. It shared and pointed to the concept. But the metaphorical code tool she used to express the concept, was not the concept itself.

Mathew 15:26-27 “26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children’s bread, and to cast it to dogs. 27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.”

And thereby separating the medium from the message, in her heart of thoughts, moving beyond the letters and words, and into the meaning, the essence of Truth is released from the Words of Truth. Heart changes only at this level. For words die, and their meanings are bent over time. They are necessary chains of the immediate moment for communication. But heart felt understanding requires moving past the material code required to express thought into physical reality, and become unified with the thought itself.

Therein lies the rub. Although we must acknowledge duality in our physical realm for communicating pure essence of meaning, once that has occurred, we must also reject that very same duality as a shell no longer applicable once the heart strings have been played upon. Mission accomplished. Thoughts connect in union. Hearts sing. Duality exposed as a temporary, yet necessary evil… so to speak.

Let this slick Jesus of yours be as slick as slick can slide. Did he not thank Pappa for confusing the wise?

Mathew 11:25 “At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.”

Did he not distinguish himself as separate from Pappa, yet paradoxically unified with Pappa?

John 14:10 “…the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.”

John 14:28 “…I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.”

Yes indeed friend, I speak of The Other. You call it Yahweh. Bhartrihari calls it Brahman.

I call it QuinticNon. The Unknowable Fifth Unknown.

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BTW camelherder… Thanks much for your thoughtful and inviting reply. I wish pilots could make every landing so smooth.

NP. Could we shorten it to ™ ? Thanks!

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Actually QuinticNon the thanks are due you . so thank you

Sometimes visitors- travelers- arrive late at nite . the men of the village argue with each other as to who will get the honor of having the travelers stay at his place. If I win , I go out of my way to welcome them. I tell the women to prepare for them something nice to eat .I grab a calf or a sheep and I slaughter it and skin it and I tell them to hurry and cook it for we have guests who have come a long way and they are hungry and tired .then all hell break loose. The women are tired and moody. They have worked all day and I’m asking them to work more . they get rowdy and they start mumbling and protesting and then its all out yelling and screaming at me and I am chasing them with the stick and they are running all over the place trying to escape… its a full fledged circle. .and the noise. .women have this knack for making sounds that can reach the four corners of the globe … I yell at them to keep it down because the visitors will hear them and their feelings will get hurt . but the women don’t want to heart that They get even louder just to spite me. .They start accusing me loudly . they say to me …you don’t do this for us . You slaughter the calf for strangers. you don’t slaughter a calf for us unless its something special. We have to ask and convince you to let us . But here comes some strangers and you are so quick to slaughter a calf for them. . Then to add injury to insult the women want to go outside to the shade where visitors stay and tell the visitors to go to hell . they even stand and want to rumble physically with me. and its all i got to do is swipe the woman with the back of my hand and something will break in her … I tell you I’ve to expend so much capital and do so much begging to get the women to co operate. I have to invoke my authority as the head of house hold . . I have to go to them… …I command you… Only then do they listen. . Still they won’t keep their mouth shut . they are mumbling and raising their voices now and then as they prepare the food and I am hoping and praying the guests do not hear their naggings I have foolish women .They do not see that .I buy them an eternity for the price of a calf or sheep and some extra work…

This gentile woman has asked for a lot. she has jumped to front of the line. For why should she get the bread of the children of god when there are all those pious people out there whose daughters are dying? Pious people with special attire and beards are praying out in the open and fasting but their daughters are dying. Here comes this gentile woman who doesn’t keep any of the rules. She makes no offerings , she doesn’t pray to god she doesn’t go to pilgrimage to the holy places and worse still she might be crazy about Madonna who sings that she is a material girl. How dare this gentile women get infront of everyone . The lost sheep of the gentile infront of the lost sheep of the Israel What kind of trick is this gentile woman trying to pull here ?

THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD

The Lord is my shepherd,
I shall not want;
He makes me lie down in green pastures.
He leads me beside still waters;
He restores my soul.
He leads me in paths of righteousness
for His name’s sake

This is the code. This is the code that the foolish people of Gomorrah and Sodom violated and ended up having to pay a heavy price for. Do not fail the lord of hospitality by failing to welcome his creatures and withholding shelter and food from his creatures . Consider yourself lucky very lucky they came to you for help and not someone else . In this you have been honored more than you know and gained more than any piety can gain you. The gift is to the giver not the receiver… You’re being made into a god.

We have a saying …unguarded wealth invites thieves .so you can’t hold it against the gentile woman if she came and scooped some of that wealth. The giver glory is in giving and the receiver is in receiving

Then after you receive always remember … to those who are given much, much is expected and to those who are given little, little is expected so you may not end up wondering …why do the wicked progress and their children multiply .

I tell you there is going to be a lot of surprises for a lot of people.

Monk26 might very well be a Hindu but his/her statement seem to suggest that the argument from intelligent design is riddled with holes . You know the typical stuff. That evil is major stumbling block and things like the theory of evolution. there also seem to be a an oblique assailing of the cosmological argument .

I don’t know. Might be teaser questions put by his/her guru to get the mind going .

do you want to know what made Stalin really deadly? He killed arbitrarily. You could be loyal and nice to him and he knows it and one day he will just look at you and say to take you out and shoot you.

Evil and good are not a duality. just as perfection and imperfection are not dualities. There is no relationship between them because you can’t obtain any equality . in order to have a relationship you have to obtain an equality .

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As you, I don’t accept a duality between good and evil. I propose duality as a form of evil.

As said before:
“Duality exposed as a temporary, yet necessary evil… so to speak.”

Necessary only to the materialistic realm of our current existence. It is the cloak before us, hiding our eyes from the horrible goodness of Absolute Truth. I fear this Truth as I fear my Lord. What eyes do I have to see such a brilliance? I can hardly bear its shadow.

That realm of Truth, immaterial, non physical, pure untainted thought, quintessence, sans entropic noise, without flotsam, rejecting jetsam… how may I approach it?

Word. The only protection I have in my weakened physical form, given to me from the beginning as a bridge to The Other. I can point to The Other with Word. I can attempt a childish description of The Other with Word. I can empty my heart to The Other with Word. For in this physical realm, with all its weeping and gnashing of teeth of your disgruntled wives, The Word has become Flesh. Codifying my existence, organizing the flotsam and jetsam into a recognizable body, a cage, a prison, a shell to be emptied.

I accept the one gift The Other has given to me. To be made in His Image. An Image nonetheless. An Image shackled to Flesh. An Image endowed with one simple characteristic of The Other. That being, the ability for Authorship. And with that ability, comes great responsibility. What on earth could that be?

To harness noise, rather than foolishly attempt to listen to it. To acknowledge Chaos as my footstool, rather than my blind creator. To bite at it, rather than allow it to devour me. Every bite is digested, forming quantum particles into 1’s & 0’s. The taste is bitter sweet. For I cannot trust the C’s & A’s & T’s to always represent my feline. Entropy, that great Satan, will attempt to snatch them away from me again, thereby misrepresenting my union of pure thought with The Other. This physical realm was built for Satan after all. It is built out of Satan, for it is built out of what Satan had built for itself. Yet Satan rejected the Essence of The Word. Thus Satan was given no Word to speak.

Yet how may we have a realm where the Essence of The Word is hidden, unavailable? Impossible! And no Satan will dare speak it aloud? Entropic Satan was not created in His Image. Entropic Satan was not given the ability for Authorship. We are the answer. And in the ultimate purity and perfection of fairness, we have a choice to make. Shall we harness and rule this Entropic Satan to form The Word, thereby expressing the Essence of The Word upon a realm where it would otherwise be left unheard? Or shall we allow the Entropic Satan to decay our references to the Essence of The Word. This physical realm does not contain Entropic Satan. IT IS Entropic Satan, the Lucifer, the false bearer of light, the shroud covering The Truth, the cloak that hides The Other.

In my lies I feed it strong. The worst of sins. I take it upon me, forming it as false word, intending to deceive with the very tool given to me at the beginning by The Other. Yet The Other is unshaken. Beyond physical beginning, beyond death. For if I have lied, it is True that I have lied. And if I have killed the Truth, it is True that I have killed the Truth. Truth remains, it is risen. It is the boundary we cannot cross. It is the chasm we cannot fathom. And even when we kill it dead, to protect our fragile ego, or to claim Chaos as our master, even when we kill it dead, it is True that we have killed it dead. Truth remains.

Unfortunately, it is the necessary evil of Dualism that allows us to point to it, commune with it, and discuss it with others. T’wer it not for this physical Entropic Satan, we would otherwise be free of the necessity of Dualism. Soon enough, soon enough, we will be beyond space/time energy/matter, and in union with The Other, sans the cloak of Dualism.

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Camelherder,
I have read your post.
So,for your kind information;
I am not a Hindu.
I am not a Christian.
I am not a Muslim.
I am not a Arebian.
I am not a Persian.
I am not a Jain.
First of all i am a human so, humanity is my religion.
And also I have no teacher(guru?)who put that question in my mind.
Half pot always hot.

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monk26,

I gathered as much .i knew from the first look your questions are actually camouflaged attacks on the argument from design . but i was being nice .it is not good to be blunt with your brother man .so i came at you from the feelings angle.

the graffiti are the words of the prophets . but see the detergent will not remove the graffiti .and the owner of the property will come and get you boy.

The Statue? first find that ladder and i will tell you

you better watch out Monk. Hitler was materialist and so was Stalin. and much more watch out for the hunter . I’m hunter . I’m poor African medicine man with stick through my nose and beat up robe . the world doesn’t care much for me . so I became a hunter . you can’t make prey of a hunter . I have no routine . I will circle around and hunt you and you will be the prey

my advice find something you have a knack for and pursue it and you will be alright …

P.S. thanks for the confessions .remember anything you say can and will held against you in a court of law .oh and if you can’t afford a lawyer the state will provide one ( Ahem )

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Silly me, here I bothered to address the question.

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QuinticNon

Roughly I think I know where you are coming from. Basically you reduced everything to life and then further into DNA.

The thing is you realty don’t have to reduce that much. You could stop at the living cell level. It’s a medical fact that the living cell is immortal. A live cell will live for as long as you provide it with nourishment and the proper environment . . the reason why we die is due to our complexity.

The bible says that the Lord is one which is not really the same as there is only one god.

This “one” business is significant. Perhaps it agrees with your take.

It could also explain the fall of man and Satan. In the bible Satan is described to posses a multitude of merchandise. So count wisdom, intelligence, conning, foresight, strength, vengeance, beauty, and and and . each of which quality is in the extreme .Obviously you can’t get more complex than Satan. Eventually the system will crash and it did… Satan was doomed to crash .man too but on a lesser extent

Mother Teresa made this observation to one of her colleagues…… do you know why god wants us to be humble ? its because he is humble himself .

We can’t reduce ourselves to a living cell. But we can think less of ourselves. I personally don’t think in a world where death is the reality anything is less or more important than another. So for me a plant or a dung beetle is just as important as me. trouble how do I get people to talk to plants . I talk to plants . they don’t tell me anything that I don’t already know . but they come in handy when I ask them such things …have you seen a deer pass by when I’m on the hunt .

Jesus says he and teh father are one. can you imagine the kind of power that is required to maintain such a singularity

without such power , yes chaos and yes pride and and and . i think we are on the same tune one way or the other

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Camelherder,
As my patience has been over now.
So,i am inviting you,please do come and hunt me.
(if you are really a lion,otherwise sheep can not hunt a human)
Come on:

33

Monk26,

does it really take lion ? boy you better stop flattering yourself.

you get peeved like an old lady .

listen , wherever you feel , as you do now , and as you always do btw , that things are going wrong and your patience is just about worn out, what you do is turn to your self and ask it if that is so . your self will tell you that you’re wrong and that nothig matters outside its touch and that I haven’t touched you yet.

34

Hey man,
Get over yourself and post something related to the subject.(not that which is written in the holy Bible )
I am not a satire like you.

35

Monk26,

Where did you copy these questions from?

where you copied these questions the author claims that and I quote “We find that ninety per cent of the population of the earth who believe in any religion are dualists. All the religions of Europe and Western Asia are dualistic; they have to be.”

it must be very disappointing for you to find me arguing that Jesus denies dualities.

hey what web we weave when we practice to deceive .

36

You do not know…?

37

i knew from the start .

you shouldn’t have messed with the questions though . you should have copied them exactly to the letter .

in the future know your place .

case closed.

next case please.

38

What is this letter?
I know my place better than you.

39

No offense, but from where I’m sitting, you haven’t closed any case intelligible beyond your own discerning.
Besides, this is a place for conversation…why treat it as a competition for winning arguments and showing off ownership of truth or rightness?

His question was fairly simple:
How does the theological basis provide the standing by which an eternal and perfect creator creates an imperfect and temporal existence?

40

"

If the effect is the cause reproduced, the question is: "How is it that we find this material, dull, unintelligent universe produced from a God, who is not material, but who is eternal intelligence? How, if the cause is pure and perfect, can the effect be quite different?" What do these qualified non-dualists say? Theirs is a very peculiar theory. They say that these three existences, God, nature, and the soul, are one. God is, as it were, the Soul, and nature and souls are the body of God. Just as I have a body and I have a soul, so the whole universe and all souls are the body of God, and God is the Soul of souls. Thus, God is the material cause of the universe. The body may be changed — may be young or old, strong or weak — but that does not affect the soul at all. It is the same eternal existence, manifesting through the body. Bodies come and go, but the soul does not change. Even so the whole universe is the body of God, and in that sense it is God. But the change in the universe does not affect God. Out of this material He creates the universe, and at the end of a cycle His body becomes finer, it contracts; at the beginning of another cycle it becomes expanded again, and out of it evolve all these different worlds"

here is the site : rkmvu.ac.in/writings/2007/04 … da.en.html

ramakrishna monk26.

hey Monk26 it was fun while it lasted .

btw Monk26 where is you friend ?

now thestump, my friend what were you saying ? i believe you were talking Christianity .but monk says do not talk about the bible. see he/she wasn’t ready for that .that’s the whole fun part of it .