I wanted to put this topic under philosophy because
it deals with wisdom. But the philosophy forum is apparently locked.
To err is human. To forgive is divine.
That is wisdom.
Or immense stupidity, the wife beater who molest his wife are forgiven all the time …and repeats his offence!
…uhmmmmmm …yearh, great wisdom!
Divine stupidity!
I think what that quote means is that to wrong, or stray from our beliefs, is a human quality. To forgive someone who does do wrong to you in some manor, is very much not a human like quality, and hence it is referred to as “Divine” by Alexander Pope. Though, I’m curious to know if you wanted an interpretation of the quote, or a response to you calling it wisdom? I find the statement in general pretty factual and non-debatable.
What do you think of the idea that forgiveness only works if the person being forgiven has done something unforgiveable?
Let’s forgive Hitler! Let’s forgive Stalin! …yearh bad idea!
You still haven’t answered my question, so let me put it another way. If someone does something that is already forgiveable, then where is the place for forgiveness?
That is why forgiveness is considered divine; it comes from the place in the heart and soul that takes the god’s eyeview.
I should add, speaking for myself, that I just can’t sustain a grudge even when I think I will at the time. I just can’t stay that angry at people that long, probably because basically I am not an angry person. I can get angry, but after a while I’m so busy having fun doing the things I enjoy, that I just forget. I guess I’m a forgiver by nature.
Forgiveness in an individual concept, very subjective and a relative concept.
Some will forgive great offences, other won’t forgive small and insignificant things.
I still hear the jews whine about Hitler’s attrocities, so I don’t really think that is forgiveable in some eyes.
Nor do I really sense that you grasp the concept, why you think I havn’t answerd your question in my previous post.
yes jonquil you forgive. teach us more
how you do it. I am being serious.
I think I just told you. I just can’t remember to carry a grudge for long, it just wears off. What happens is I get busy with the people and things I enjoy, and it all just goes away. Also, I don’t carry around a lot of anger. I can get angry and let off steam all right, but as I said, it just goes away. Further, I think there’s a way that everyone always does the best they can, and if you know everything about them, a lot of stuff they do comes clear. It’s like that line in To Kill a Mockingbird where Atticus tells Scout, you have to walk around in a person’s shoes to really understand them, and from that you learn empathy and compassion.
[Also, turtle, please ‘forgive’ me if I sound smarmy and unctious here.]
For me, forgiveness does not play a huge role in my life.
Forgiveness stems from “to give up desire or power to punish”
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=forgive
I don’t understand this kind of logic, we are discussing a term, a concept in general terms!
…not your private definition and personal approach to the subject.
Can you be forgiven without being judgmental ? obviously not, forgiveness is a little to close to pity for me. Do you beleive that by offering someone your forgiveness you help them in any way ? Socrates reckoned the best way to punish someone,was to encourage them in their rong doing and to ensure that they were never brought to justice. I would agree with this, so punish them first, then by all means forgive them.
Jonquil has given a working definition. That definition consists of faultless logic and blameless reasoning.
What of the idea that forgiveness is not for the other person, but for the person doing it?
In my own life, I’ve found this to be true.
His version of forgiveness certainly doesn’t adhere my logci and reason.
So the natural conclusion of this is what?
… Other is illogical and self is logical.
the popular conception of forgiveness, and the conception of it by most people on this thread, plays a very, very big role in the manipulative slave morality of Christianity. teach a people that forgiveness is a virtue and watch them let themselves get trampled over.
I find that forgiveness is utterly psychological. In my experience forgiveness is not about giving someone a free pass after a moral trespass, as HexHammer seems to conceive it; it’s closer to what Roberto and Blurred are talking about, like letting go of emotional baggage. In some situations, a return to normal/previous modes of interacting may follow, or it may end up that after forgiving some person or group of people there is a complete parting of ways – you can’t truly part ways with someone if you can’t forgive them. It’s kind of like what they say about love and hate… being unable to forgive means that strong feelings are involved which binds two or more people together, if not physically then psychologically, and sustains the relationship (albeit probably not for the better).
Why should forgiveness cause someone to get trampled over? Personally, I’ve found it to be very useful. I’ve been wronged pretty horribly in my life, I’m fairly certain everyone has, and hating the person/s responsible becomes tiring. There comes a point when one must let go, reclaim their own headspace. That’s all forgiveness is, letting go.
i see forgiveness as more than letting go.
my dad was a pretty shitty dad. i don’t think about it all the time. i don’t sit there and stew in my anger. i let it go.
i haven’t forgiven him though. i don’t trust him, i don’t want to be around him.
to forgive someone, i think, means to trust them as you would have before they wronged you.
if a friend steals your watch and you find out, you don’t trust him for a while.
if he gives the watch back and apologizes – i still wouldn’t trust him right away.
i might not be angry any more, i might have “let it go,” but now i know what kinda guy this is, and i still don’t trust him the way i did before he took it.
he’d have to earn the trust back. that’s the biggest part of forgiveness that the moral slaves skip out on – they don’t think the forgivee is responsible for earning the trust back.
well i do.