Islam & Slavery - toward debunking Insidious Allegations

I have NEVER said we are against slaves!, and l wish society would permit it, in an ethical way i.e. as a byproduct of war, not as a commercial venture unto itself.

However, the portrayal of Muslims by Islamophobic writers is that we made slave raids for ooooh l dunno, 1,300 years as you stated. That’s simply not true. It is baseless. I’m aware there are more authors saying this, and parroting other authors that have said it, more authors that l could shake a stick at.

However, l see no evidence of Muslims making slave raids i.e. a venture where slavery is its own end, and end unto itself. Show me this please?

CLEAR OBSERVATION: Also: if it were so, then why aren’t there slave communities as you see in the civilisations that DID have slavery as a commercial venture, which is to say: slavery on a MAAAASSSIVE SCALE? e.g. all the countries of Western Europen, the USA, and South America. In all these places, you actually see massive communities of slave descendants. That simply does NOT exist in the Islamic world my friend.

CLEAR OBSERVATION: Also, as l pointed out: The slaves that were taken to Brazil would have been taken within living memory of the time the Arabs enslaved them and forced them to convert to Islam. So, why is it then, that in Brazil, they made one final effort at freedom via an ISLAMIC slave revolt in 1835 in Brazil? Stockholm syndrome is it?

I’m sorrry but it is simply a fact that some people freely chose Islam, they converted to Islam because they liked it.

Also, when Arabs were in Africa, they traded fair and square. They didn’t exploit.

CLEAR OBSERVATION: Also, “Arab” is a linquisitic definition in Islam, the Prophet told us that from now on, ANYBODY that speaks Arabic is an Arab and thus local communities of new Muslims in Africa began calling themselves Arabs. The revisionist provocateurs that came later, made up tales that these Arab / Swahili speakers were in fact the result of rape of black women by Muslim men etc. and that all Muslims are exploiting them. No irony that the same revisionists had been enslaving Africa just decades prior.

CLEAR OBSERVATION: Also don’t forget: the Qur’an and Hadith prophecies clearly condemn the taking of slaves as an end unto itself, and the European pirates (?) that did that, e.g. those who carried whips like the tail of an Ox, which is the Cat O’ Nine Tails, which did NOT exist at the time, as is evident from the hadith. It only came about over 1,000 years later in association with the British navy and propably other European naval forces. The bearers of these cruel whips were said to be Cursef by Allah. How can you associate that scale of slavery and that type of slavery - as an economic venture by itself - with Islam?

CONCLUSION:
The authors you cite, and all who are contingent upstream and downstream of them, are lying to smear Islam and the lies began curiously just as the Zionist movement was starting up in the late 1800s.

Feel free to reply!

Recall: the purpose of the Zionist movement was to take Palestine from the Ottomans. And quite likely to then rebuild the Temple there. Sir Isaac Newton had made plans for the Temple. It seems like they had to smear Muslims to achieve this so that Muslims and Xtians would not join together and condemn what was happening.

“l see no evidence of Muslims making slave raids i.e. a venture where slavery is its own end, and end unto itself. Show me this please?”

Well you’ll have some African muslims enslaving other Africans now and then down there, and several bourgeois islamic theocrats that have been doing pretty good keeping the arab working classes fooled with nonsense about imams and caliphates 'n stuff. Guys are making good money and living for free in golden temples all across the middle-east and have been for generations. Holy crap… imagine being a Muslim and not knowing the nonsense you believe has caused untold death and drudgery for thousands of years all across the eastern hemisphere.

Anywho, granted, the latter form of slavery isn’t what it used to me. Today, it’s called ‘wage slavery’, and what happens is… you overwork for peanuts and live your life in debt, or refuse to work and be arrested for loitering or trespassing. Choice is yours, and no Allah is going to save you or your childrens from this epic travesty.

Kay, sorry to interrupt. I’ll see myself out. Ashalam malakum. Salami eggs and bacon.

I’m referring to:

  1. The historical period in question
  2. Not the deeds of gulf Arabs who are in a class of their own (for one thing they are part Jewish through intermarriage with Russian brides etc.)
  3. SLAVE RAIDS WHERE THE PURPOSE WAS TO TAKE SLAVES i.e. because one population or even one race, has been labelled “inferior” and thus marked for commercial slavery. That was the INDUSTRIAL SCALE SLAVERY that European powers actually did, and now revisionists accuse Muslims of.

In the Islamic style of slavery, mutilation of slaves was forbidden, no snipping genitals off, no cutting ears off or hobbling the slave etc. as per EVERY other culture from time to time.

Also, it wasn’t a racist system as per European economic industrial scale slavery. A Chinese Muslim could own a Jewish Arab e.g. a captured ISIS fighter (a total liability if you ask me), a Nigerian Muslim could own a white slave (FOR A CHANGE!) and so forth. If Islamic slavery was anything like that, you’d see huge communities of slave descendants, and a lot of racial intermixing - as in nations where large scale slavery really did occur e.g. Europe, the Americas. I’m sorry but a few Filipinos and a depressed Indian maid is not comparable, even if unforgivable against the perpetrators (I agree there).

Incidentally, re: Islamic style of slavery: if I woke up tomorrow as a slave per the Islamic style, YES it would be a jolt. But then, as it sinks in, l’d have to seriously ask myself how much my life will have changed? In fact, would some aspects have improved?

Can’t have mosslem propaganda thread without a drawing of your favourite PDF file.

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So that’s why he’s called ‘the prophet Mohummid’, he prophesied that the world would one day use a cow’s tail to whip people in a more efficient way (and with a much catchier name) than the previously most popular method ‘The cat o’ eight tails’.(made from the tail of the most beautiful and desired goat in the village). Mohummid’s revelation came when he discovered that cats in fact have nine lives so therefore must also have nine tails. He was a genius (may peace pee upon him).

:open_mouth: :man_facepalming:

Did anybody remember that when they took out Gaddafi in Libya modern slavery resumed in Northern Africa afterward? Pepperidge Farms remembers.

:clown_face:

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If you never were able to handle the topic then l’m wondering why you engaged?

This is the Argument from Incredulity Logical Fallacy:
Argument from incredulity, also known as argument from personal incredulity, appeal to common sense, or the divine fallacy,[1] is a fallacy in informal logic. It asserts that a proposition must be false because it contradicts one’s personal expectations or beliefs, or is difficult to imagine.

You cannot say you didn’t understand the topic - it was explained over and over to you. It’s quite simple: Muslims did not do slavery as an end unto itself. And following from that, it was never on the gigantic industrial scale that it was in the “West” (Europe and the Americas). The topic began with a citation of millions n millions of Europeans and Black Africans supposeldy enslaved by Muslims.

It was quite simple and l repeatedly asked you to show evidence of Muslim slave raids.

Instead the responses have been:

  • I cannot use “Toward” in my title (LOL) - in fact it can be used in an “infinitive” sense to convey gravity i.e. a formal sense, as per research articles, and that person was no academic.
  • I created the thread in response to arbitrary stats being given for people enslaved by Muslims, and your response was to give more of the same. They were abitrary as they contained no evidence. Just heaped numbers despite:
  • No residual huge communities of former slaves in Islamic lands, as there should be and are, in Europe and the Americas
  • No mixed populations beyond what one would expect in border lands, in Islamified nations
  • No living memory of these hypothetical vast slavetaking events by Muslims
  • It being against the Qur’an to take slaves for the sake of taking slaves
  • The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) foretelling that people would arise who use whips like the tail of an Ox, and they would be under the curse of Allah - and Lo! Pirates did begin using the Cat O Nine Tails in the late 1600s when the Transatlantic Slave Trade began!!!
  • Then another buffoon arrived to say there are golden temples in the Middle East built buy people that have caused untold death and drudgery. Allegations he just pulled out of nowhere. More baseless allegations.

I have challenged you many times on this thread, @ProfessorX - you have not risen to the challenge except to repeat the original baseless slur.

I have no idea what you mean, but a year as a slave in the Islamic golden age was probably about equal to a week of global drudgery these days.

As for Ghaddafi, yes it’s trendy to look back on him with rose tinted glasses but the fact is he was a terrorist who blew up a Pan Am plane over Lockerbie and l’m glad they excecuted him. Sure, things were probably marginally better when he ruled, for the Libyans, but the fact is, under his rule, the Libyans hated life, just as they hate life now.

In fact l’ve lost the appetite for this thread, it’s making me seem anti-Jewish / bigoted when in fact l am not a racist, l just feel l need to bring them into it for comparison to Muslims when discussing slavery. But really it’s a fruitless thread with unintellectual responses.

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Using ‘towards’ in your stupid title makes no grammatical sense whatsoever either way. Perhaps learn to write in English before posting next time, and stop using AI garbage to ‘write’ your posts for you.

Ps. There is no such thing as ‘British’ English. English is English. ‘American English’ is bullshit. You’re welcome.

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It seems Loser McHermit is raging at me. Reply alert with no reply visible. If anybody sees a thread by me on here, and they are not academically minded, please, flee, flee from that thread. It’s not for you. It’s toxic oxygen to your brainrot :S

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Please try explaining how slavery is ethically wrong, except if you declare war and invade another country then slavery is ok, makes any sense at all.

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That is another topic altogether, but the most immediate aspect is, you don’t get the millions on millions that you got via the Transatlantic Slave Trade, if the Islamic ethic of taking slaves only from the end point of an exhausted war were applied. From the Islamic way, you’d only get about 0.1% of the Indusrial Scale Deliberate Transatlantic Slave trade. Yet Alt Right Revisionists are trying to pin on Muslims, what they themselves did to the max. aka enslaving tens of millions.

You can start a separate topic on how slavery in Islam is bad, and how it is as bad as takign slaves for the sake of taking slaves, as per Eureopean / Western slave trading.

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Can i ask why that’s funny? It’s a formal reply and pretty boring on the face of it. I’m genuinely wondering why you find it funny? Not upset, just weirded out / curious. I have jokes you might like and can Google some, but l have to warn you, they are far funnier than historical perspectives on sociology. Maybe on another thread?

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@LampAndNightingale If that’s directed TOWARDS me I don’t have a clue what you are ranting about. I don’t have you on ignore. You must have put ME on ignore and forgotten. Dementia does that sort of thing. It’s also hilarious the way men on here constantly refer to themselves as ‘intelligent’, ‘academic’ (not exactly something to be proud of these days), argument ‘winners’… So much ego to fit onto one forum :laughing:
By the way, if I click on YOUR profile it comes up ‘user not active’. I have no idea what that means and don’t care. Clearly it’s bullshit.

Damn bro.

Didn’t know the conspiracy ran so deep. Thought it was just a few Jewish Rabbi crazies.

Guess it was a British conspiracy after all, like I said.

.

..interesting, if true.

.

Looks like the guy has left the [proverbial] building.. Karma, for his disingenuous trolling posting ass. :laughing:

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Did more research I guess it makes sense why British people would want to support Zionism in the 1600s, Muslims were the largest empire in the world and took 14 million African slaves. However, the amount of white slaves they took is exaggerated by right-wingers and they only took 2 million white slaves.

The confusion might be from their castration policy which killed about 90% of slaves. So if you assume the 2 million refers to slaves after castration then you get the larger number.

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