Justification for Idealism

Philosophy Forums Philosophy
1

I have been enjoying my ass off trying to defend basic Idealism in the several amoralistic and Nihilistic threads. I figured it was time to offer up Idealism to be attacked wholesale instead of trying to present it as a counter argument elsewhere.

Here is my basic Justification for believing in the idea of Platonic forms.

Numbers are real. Numbers are far more then symbols useful for calculating things they represent ideas that have a reality of their own. The number 2 exists as an idea without the need for human observation to ‘prove’ it’s existence. If the universe consisted of nothing more than a single hydrogen atom, you would still have the numbers one through three to account for the quantity of particles in the universe.

Ideas are real things, they have a substance of their own.

Discuss…

2

Nothing is justified. Justification is fleeting and illusional rendering the observer in delusion.

3

justification is subjective…

some take that and call it an illusion, and some call it the meaning of life… to each his own

4

If you believe there is a independent noumenal reality outside yourself that makes you cosmically justified over others in certain specific narrow actions I do believe that by calling it a delusion is not a long shot statement.

5

still but delusion implies confusion or at minumum deception.

calling reality a deception is not a long shot… but delusion is kinda negative don’t you think?

6

Sure you can call it a real deception but it doesn’t go anywhere near in justifying somthing as actually being right.

7

Ok, so far the terms being thrown about IE. Delusion, Illusion, deception ect, ect, all imply that an individual is not seeing reality as it really is. Does this not imply that there is a state of reality against which our beliefs can be verified?

8

it is my genuine belief that there is no such thing as “right”

9

I personally look at man who is distraught by all of reality for what it “is” through existential fear and anxiety.

Thefore he comes to create “oughts” taking actual reality for granted believing that his “oughts” is seemingly real all the while he forgets that the origin of his praised constructed “oughts” are fictional or theatrical to keep fear at bay from the actual world that “is”.

10

kind of yes but not necessarily. it could imply that we are merely incapable of viewing our reality with 100% “correctness”

correctness meaning validity… validity meaning actuality… actuality meaning the one and only truth…

(the statement i was trying to make if you missed it was that humans cannot perceive things without the information being skewed)

11

Subjectively we all like to believe we are absolutely “right” in our own minds but as for objectivism where the cosmos is entirely operated on chaotic relativity “right” or “rights” does not even exist.

12

So from both of you I am getting the gist that although there may be such a thing as truth it is not possible for man to know truth?

13

chaotic relativity aside… what does a rock care if innocent virgin blood is spilt on it? what does the sun care if you use its rays to mame people?

there are only actions with different outcomes.

so far the only way we have of determining “rightness” is using our opinions.

14

There is your truth and there is my truth. Sometimes they can be the same while other times they are not.

In the universe seperated from man’s own consciousness there is just being which doesn’t have anything to with truth at all because it is a existence of unreason where truth is not a issue.

15

Pretty much. Biasness makes the world go round.

16

basically…

we would both say you would have to be god or omnicient.

i identify with pantheism… you would have to BE evrtything and understand EVERYTHING in order to know what is reaqlly going on… outside of that our facts are actually just best guesses

17

AginCourt you might like a old thread of mine which discusses idealism to some length:

( Its nothing special but it makes for interesting reading.)

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=160767

18

The number 2 doesn’t exist unless human beings cognize it to be so, neither does any other idea.

19

Just to throw my ideas out here:

What most people think is ‘real’ is actually illusive and hence: reality is an illusion.

Therefore, reality can only be metaphysical and the ‘illusions’ being referred to are practical, sensical, and experiential.

20

Isn’t an idea merely the human perception of something that exists? Ideas can only exist if there is human life to be imagining them.