It’s been shown through extensive testing with cadavers that there’s no way the cross Constantine had in his dream could have been the kind the Roman’s used. They had to be hung on an X shaped cross that was just laid up against a beam on the back. It’s also proven that they had to drive the stakes through the wrists (behind the cross) and the heel bones of the feet, to hold the body in place… otherwise it would just fall off from it’s own weight and tear itself through the stakes. So the joke is on all those stigmata people and people wearing crosses. There’s no way the wounds could have been on the hands as recorded in the Bible.
Any references?
Just saw a show on History 2 with a bunch of scientists doing the experiments over the course of an hour… I’ll poke around. Just thought people might be interested that they’re all wearing Constantine’s cross, and modern forensics shows it can’t kill a person. Even if hypothetically, they were able to get someone up on that cross, they’d die of asphyxiation within minutes from the neck collapsing on the chest, which defeated the purpose of the cross which was the longest amount of torture and humiliation which could be rendered.
The asphyxiation can be resisted by the person’s own strength. When the strength fails the person dies. This can take a long time. By pushing up with the lags onto the nails pressure can come off the chest. Some clowns in the US spend the weekend on a cross for a laugh (or some shit) so it is possible to not even be harmed according to how you are attached.
In the Philipines they take it more seriously.
buzzfeed.com/gavon/christian … .xlVqPGXpx
If that’s true, this show mis-represented the facts to that regard at LEAST. Hmm… They basically said that the hands (palms) could not support the weight, and someone could just tear themselves off the cross if the body didn’t already do it naturally, which they suggested was the real situation with palm nailing.
They’re being held up with ribbons Lev!!! Who knows, maybe that’s how the Roman’s did it.
So, joke’s on WHO, then?
Thanks Uccisore =) The Romans never stated that they used ribbons to tie people down on crosses, and they tended to keep very meticulous records… so there’s something to be said for the exploration of this idea without ribbons.
I can’t find these references online, but there were Jewish Kings killed on crosses before and after Jesus. He was killed for claiming to be the Jewish King, or others claiming it for him… however that went down.
Exploration? You mean watching the history channel for a few minutes then coming here and telling everybody their religion is wrong?
It was a 1 -2 hour show, I can’t remember… but they studied the forensics of nailing someone to a Constantine cross, and showed they could just pull themselves off of it. With the X cross, it was physically impossible to do. So they concluded the Romans used an X cross. Perhaps they were all just a bunch of bullshitters for no apparent purpose other than to spread false propaganda to destroy Christianity on cable television. Which do you think is more likely Uccisore?
Just to add to this… they showed that anyone could easily pull themselves out of nailed hands no matter what, and that they’d be compelled to do so under such circumstances… and with the whole weight of the body, the heel stakes would give out as well.
Just to add to this… there’s no bone in the hand which can support the weight of a human body, especially if they struggled, unlike the heel bone for the feet. The Romans would have certainly known this and put the stakes through the wrist.
Just to add to this… it’s not about pulling the nail out, so it doesn’t matter the circumference of the end of the nail head, it’s about being able to tear the hand off the nail, which those guys in the phillipenes could have done even with those ribbons attached.
Do your research Ec. There were many types of crucification. Sometimes they had support for the feet so the person could hold their own weight. Sometimes they nailed through the wrists, sometimes through the hands, sometimes they were bound with ropes. Sometime they punctured the lung. There were around 4 types configurations they were bound to (pole, t, T, X).
Basically they expected experimented and played with the process. Sometimes they wanted to speed the process of death up and sometimes they wanted to slow the process of death down. It was about publicly shaming a person while killing them. A big insult back then as death was about honour and respect.
If you look at some religious symbols you can sometimes see that Jesus is represented by a nail through the palm, bound by ropes, having a support near the feet, and finally with a punctured lung (sometimes all of these are shown). It is a symbol to all non fundamentalists. Theist or atheist fundamentalists want to portray it as non symbolic.
Ok JR… I’ll accept that premise. That there were different types of crucifixion and I didn’t know I was I talking about. I think Ucci could learn or thing or too from your politeness and your ability to comprehend what you’re reading and reply to it intelligibly. Uccisore needs to learn that his belligerence won’t win debates. Arguments that comprehend what was read that that reply to the content is what wins debates. I give this debate to you JR.
What debate? You said some dumb things, three people corrected you, you give JR an attaboy as a passive aggressive stab on me because you’re mad about another thread. That being said, you admitted you don’t know what you’re talking about on the first page. This is a breakthrough. You might actually end up fitting in here.
Well actually the depictions JR described couldn’t keep Jesus from pulling his hands out of the stakes, because his arms weren’t bound, and that’s the most important part… but I"ll just assume for the sake of argument that the Christians got it wrong.
If a person takes symbolism as literal then that person becomes a fundamentalist.
Jesus on the Cross symbolises victory in the oldest possible imagery of the concept of victory.
It is just plain silly to discuss the exact details. Just plain silly.
Umm… at the elbow joints he could still pull his hands out of the stakes… the ribbons would have needed to be at the wrists (at a minimum) for hand-nailing.