Meditation, some answers

Philosophy Forums Philosophy
121

Let us talk about the mind more which will help in understanding the experiences, process and effects of the meditation on us.

Basically out mind behaves just like our physical body. As we have different organs in our body to execute different tasks, like feet for walking, hands for holding an picking, eyes for seeing etc, in the same way the mind also have different parts/organs to execute different tasks. In other words we can say that the mind works in four different ways. Namely- imagination(thinking), wisdom(analyzing), memory, ego( execution, will power). If we look carefully, we will find that we have to use these all four parts/qualities of the mind to perform any task.

let us take an example to understand this more clearly.

Let us take an example of having a beer. First of all, the thought of having a beer must have crossed to the mind. That thought may have come for any reason but the mind must have think about this before anything. Then comes wisdom or analyzing power. After thinking of having a beer, the next thing we will do to think whether we should have one or not, whether it is right time or not, or one’s health allows it or not. We will judge its pros or cons then decide accordingly. Let us say we decide to have a beer. Now, the memory part takes over as we will think how we can get a beer, like is there one in the fridge, or we have to buy it, if so from which shop and which brand etc. Lastly we go for it means, we start executing that decision, like take it out from the fridge or go to the shop to buy one and have it. The work is complete now.

We all have all these four qualities of the mind But not in the same proportion. That depends how often we use different qualities of the mind. Just as a runner develops strong legs and a blacksmith develops strong hands and arms because they tend to use a particular set of muscles again and again, in the same way, the strength of these four qualities of the mind also depends upon their repetitive use. Like artists use their imagination power more so that increases more than other three. A philosopher uses wisdom more, a student uses memory more and a meditator uses elocutionary power the most.

The important thing to understand here is that any act cannot be competed without using all these four qualities. Having said that, it is not necessary that all four qualities of the mind must be used in the same quantity every time. But, all four qualities must be used, no matter how big or how small their individual contribution
may be. As some actions happen very swiftly, like in a split of a second but even in those cases, all qualities come in use but it looks to us that we miss some steps but that is not true.

As i said above, meditation is all about execution or will power, means, we are training our will power to supersede all other three. So, with practice, the will power of the mind becomes strong enough to keep it focused on desired purpose. Having said that, other three qualities never cease to exist but only kept in control. So, we can see how much long practice is important. Besides that, strengthening of will power helps a lot in other aspects of life too.

with love,
sanjay

122

Now let us go back to the practical part of the meditation and discuss finer points.

For that we have to assume that one has taken his/her desired final posture and starts focussing on the repetition of the mantras of one’s choice with closed eyes.

The important thing to understand here though any part of the body is not supposed to be moved at all after taking desired posture but the body should not be stiff at all but loose completely. No physical force is required here. it rather can be done by mind only. There is a way of doing it.

First of all, relax your body completely without moving it. Take some deep breaths and start thinking that you are withdrawing your consciousness from all parts of the body back to your mind. Start doing it from the farthest parts like tip of the tows and fingers. Assume that they are getting numb and continue this for 2-3 minutes and you will actually feel like there is no life left in your body. Now, start repeating chosen mantras in your mind and keep your focus on it. And, just keep doing it as long as possible. I think that 15 min would be good enough for starters for a session. Take some rest after every 15 min. Have some walk or drink a cup of tea of coffee and then repeat a session again. You can do as many sessions as long as you feel comfortable. And, after some time you can increase the time of sessions gradually too but try to increase it gradually not at once.

In the starting, one may feel somewhat tiredness or slight rigidness/pain in the body but it will go away as you move your body after each session. Walking slowly for few mins works best in this case.

This is for the body. In the next post i will discuss the mental implications of doing this and how to handle those.

One important thing here for the readers. This thread has been almost a monologue since its starting. Though i do not mind that but if anyone has any further questions/clarifications, i would be happy to answer. I know that many people hesitate to ask even if they want to know further. Readers can also PM me if they want.

with love,
sanjay

123

Now, let us talk about what happens to the mind during meditation. This post is very important thus readers should pay full attention to it.

As i said before in this thread that it is quite difficult to control the mind and keep it focussed on any one thing for long time. I can tell from my experience how one is going to feel during meditation.

As one tries to focus on the repetition of the mantras, the feeling of restlessness takes over. As long as one continues, this feeling goes stronger to stronger. The mind will keep asking to stop it and you will not find any reason for it too. However, it is almost essential to get over it. No further progress can be made without it. Mind will keep wandering here and there but you have to keep pulling the focus of your mind back to the repetition again and again. It is a continuous struggle which never ends.

I myself have gone through this phase. When i started focussing on the repetition, i was able to keep my focus for some time but then from nowhere some total unconcerning thoughts used to pop up there which clearly had no correlation with my present frame of the mind, like what happened in my school when i was in 3rd class or what i saw in a dream a month back. I thought a lot about this and came to the conclusion that my (conscious) mind is not thinking all this. These thoughts must belong to someone else.

Let us assume that i do not want to get out from my room, then no one can force me to do so. I can stay in a particular room as along as i want. Which means that my body is in my total control. But, in the same way, if i want to focus on a particular thing for long time, my mind refuses to do so. Why? Do i not own my mind completely?
Is there someone else who co-owns it?

I did not find any answer of the question for a long time but i kept meditating. My mind continue to wander again and again and i have to bring it back to the repetition. Meanwhile, I somehow felt that the irrelevant thoughts are becoming somehow clearer. In other words, i can feel those more closely. Not only that, i wan able to start discerning what i(conscious mind) am thinking from what is coming from outside of it. I do not remember correctly now as it was a long time back but it took me 2-3 months to realize that those irrelevant thoughts are from unconscious(soul’s) mind.

All this is going to happen with anyone who is going to try sincerely thus i have mentioned my personal experience of it. Your mind will keep slipping from your control and you will able to realize that even after some time that you are not concentrating on mantras.

it is not the case that all this distraction happens during meditation only. it happens all the time but normally we have so much noise in our minds that we are unable to realize this but as that noise decreases a lot during meditation thus we can discern the working of conscious mind from unconscious one. And, as the conscious mind becomes stronger with practice, these distractions will become less and less.

There is a lot more about this issue to discuss and that i will take in the next post.

Again, as this may sound a bit confusing to some thus any further clarifications are welcome.

with love,
sanjay

124

Let us continue from the last post.

When we try to focus continuously on the repetition on the mantras, after some time when we become able to maintain the focus successfully for slightly longer intervals, the feeing of dizziness takes over. We tend to feel than we should sleep now and that happens in reality too. In the initial phase, most meditators fall asleep during meditation. It may happen for very short intervals like 1-2 mins to 1-2 hours. Mostly it starts happening in hours timeframe but keep decreasing with practice.

Some may fear at this stage wondering what is happening to them or whether their efforts are going in vain. But, it is not an issue. Rather. it is a natural outcome of meditation. In Hinduism it is called Yog-Nidra which means meditative sleep. This stage is also mentioned in Sufism. It says that this stage of somnolence must come. In most cases, people do not remember what has happened during sleep but have the strong feeling that they must have experienced something.

With passing time an practice, this time time period of Somnolence keeps decreasing and comes down to 1-2 minutes and ever to seconds. You will feel a short burst of of sleep of some seconds and mind will go back again to the repetition. A short burst again after some time and again back to repetition. But, you will still not able to remember what happened during that short burst of sleep.

Again, as i mentioned in this thread before, this stage of Somnolence is the result of the struggle or dominance between conscious and unconscious mind. When we are awake, conscious mind takes over active role while unconscious mind remain passive. In other words, in awaken stage, conscious mind does the work while unconscious just witness what is happening. But, during sleep their role reverses as unconscious does the doing while conscious witness it. This is precisely what happens in the dreams too. That is why many times in the dreams we feel that we should not do or behave in a particular way but we do and we cannot stop doing it either. As a thumb rule, conscious mind cannot interfere with the working of the unconscious.

There is too much of that kind of knowledge/experiences which are forbidden to conscious mind so when conscious mind reaches at tapping that, unconscious mind has no option but to induce sleep in order to stop it. It may sound strange to some people when i say that having the knowledge of the unconscious mind is not allowed for humans and for good reasons too. In other words, humans are not supposed to meditate. One may ask why? The answer is that the reason is the same why god forbid adam and eve from eating the apple from the tree of knowledge.

So, over time and with practice, these short bursts of sleep keep decreasing and a time comes when the meditator starts hanging between sleep and awakening. Then, all of a sudden, the meditator may hear a short sound byte or see a short video clip from the other side. This may be anything, a glimpse of place, a picture or a voice of someone.

This is precisely what i mentioned as a first threshold above in this thread. This is first encounter of the unknown or first forced entry of the conscious mind into the unconscious.

This is still to continue-

with love,
sanjay

125

Meditation is exercising and disciplining the psychological, just as we do with the physical… sculpting both body and mind, to aid in coping with our existence, responsibilities, and choices… both, working, when done regularly enough.

Perhaps it is in maintaining the consistency of practice, is where most fail, in getting anything out of it. Perhaps it is a specific mind-set endeavour.

126

True.

True again. And, when people fail because of the lack of desired effort, they put blame of the concept itself.

This is partially right but partially wrong too.

Technically speaking, everyone is capable of endeavoring and succeeding too but that does not materialize in reality.

As per my understanding, it is vey difficult to get something out of it with the mindset of normal circumstances, though not impossible. Usually, One needs some extra kick (intensity) in order to successful in that. I think that extra intensity can come only for three reasons. Very deep and earnest desire to know the unknown, a very deep faith in something or someone and lastly desperation caused by the circumstances.
In my case, it started from the third option, then it moved to the second and lastly to the third one.

The thing is that one has to give it all that one has. And, Only then the process starts but usually giving all does not happen in normal circumstances.

with love,
sanjay

127

The second reason of the failure in having any substantial gain by meditation in the majority of the cases is the non-availability of accomplished teachers.

I have tried very seriously for a quite long time in acquiring any kind of teaching/instructor position in any of the recognized meditation institute but failed miserably. They all have very strange benchmarks. Many said that they are interested only in Buddhist meditation teachers while others ask whether i have completed any course or not. All that tells about their understanding of the meditation. They are more interested in literature an certificates, not real practical knowledge, which i think that i am more than competent to provide.

Meditation is all about practical knowledge and experiences. No book can teach you that, ever. Believe me that I am not exaggerating when i say that not many living persons in this world as of now may know about meditation more than me but it is not serving any purpose to others. Sometimes i feel sorry for that but i cannot do anything about that.

with love,
sanjay

128

I meant: in my experience of what others have told me, and not that I need to overcome that fear… I’ve spent the last few years doing just that… it was rather unpleasant, I can tell you.

I took that journey because I wasn’t content with where I previously was mentally, and I now feel much lighter and unburdened, of mind… so replacing the old/useless thought patters, with the new/useful ones. Quite the painful process, but it had to be done… for progression’s sake.

129

Perhaps because they don’t want to feel like they failed in the endeavour?

I find, that it’s a process of constantly moving forward mentally, and maintaining that constant state of flowing-thought.

Yes… circumstance made me (have to) do it. Now it’s just maintenance and upkeep, of which I’ll hopefully do for an eternity, to maintain the mind-over-matter state, of unfettered youth… an example being, going from a plank to a cross-legged-seated pose in one move, which I was recently able to do again, once I’d meditated on it for many many days.

So I’d say… meditation is about redirecting our energies, to achieve a desired outcome.

130

You seem to be advocating mindfulness, which IS helpful, but I feel that severing the connection to the “naughty monkey” as you called it, is possible and the true aim. Stop the thought train, for a little while anyway.

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with love,
sanjay

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with love,
sanjay

133

Severing the connection to the naughty monkey is not possible. No one is capable of doing that, not even the enlightened ones.The best we can do is to realize that there is a naughty monkey and thereafter learning how to coexist with it without getting influenced from it.

The problem here is that the enlightenment resides in all of us in the form of consciousness but it is amalgamated with the mind and cannot be separated in normal circumstances. Thus, the only thing that can enable us to realize our hidden enlightenment is mind but besides that mind plays its own tricks also. It is mischievous but it is the only mean which can help us to get these. So, in a way it is a necessary evil, evil but still necessary.

With love,
sanjay

134

What do you say then about reaching or experiencing any of the stages of Jhana? I experienced the 4th stage just focusing on the breath. I felt separated from the naughty monkey then, if only for a short while. Eventually thoughts returned.

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By unpleasant, I mean draining, both on my physical and mental well-being… all my energy, or what little I had of it at the time, was spent in a constant state of thinking and thought-processing, until I had gotten through all the mental clutter and on to a place of contentment and non-buffering thoughts.

Now it’s just about maintenance, and that’s a great place to have finally achieved arriving at, but it was a long and arduous route I took… and not the path most trod.

136

My guess is that happens in the majority of the cases.

So a necessity will always trigger the need to go there, to go beyond the self’s capacity for rhyme and reason and to have to reformulate/develop a whole new mind set.

137

Focussing on the breath is an easily available an effective choice.

As i found it, just like most of the other meditation practices, Jana Meditation as postulated in Jainism does not offer practical details. The details are incomplete and vague. The exact and precise step and step instructions are missing.

Having said that, if Jana is working well for someone, he/she should continue with that.

Satvapati, as named as a fourth stage in Jana meditation, comes quite late in the process. If you have read my all previous posts in this thread, i mentioned this fourth stage of Jana as the second Trigger point.

Here it is—

So, the fourth stage of Jana is this second trigger point as i mentioned in above post.

But, these is lot more than besides having concentration that happens at this point, which includes physical experiences too. I have not mentioned that yet but i will.
Secondly, i you have any other questions, i would suggest you go through the whole thread very carefully once again.

with love,
sanjay

138

I think i understand what you are saying.

Sincere meditation certainly is quite physical and mental draining. Not only that, it also sometimes creates disturbances in normal life routine. That is precisely the reason why in old times, Extreme meditation was not prescribed for common people but to scholars only, wo had no worldly obligations. Having said that, practicing a little of it without going all in is quite doable for folks.

with love,
sanjay

139

Sorry guys, I am shifting home and that will keep me busy until 5th.

With love,
Sanjay

140

I immersed myself into it fully, like one does when taking a hot bath… I had nothing much else to do, and so it kinda just happened. Once started, there was no stopping… it made me very anti-social though, due to becoming submerged in mainly only affairs of the mind.