You don’t take mental illness into account. Where people forced to make the worst decisions for themselves.
You also have the temerity to say once we agree that we’re all slaves the world will finally be at peace.
It’s the complete opposite. It’s your faulty understanding of no free will, which when understood, gives us the greatest freedom imaginable. This just shows me how totally ignorant you are. Now please stop this consent violation, or you will be the biggest hypocrite EVER!!!
PG, Can you start a new thread that combines everything you have said in the determinism thread and this thread into one neat and tidy argument in the original post? I did not get the impression you were an advocate for free will. Please correct my misunderstanding. Please link to the new thread in a reply to each of the two threads I mentioned.
Imagining no freewill is like trying to imagine absolute nothingness. It’s impossible. You can’t be a sentient being in absolute determinism. You can’t be sentient in absolute chaos either.
Ichthus decided to keep the thread on topic by making your argument in his way.
He’s making the same argument in the sense that unless we surrender our will to god, there will always be strife.
The whole thing has been on topic PG.
Peacegirl: You have no clue what this discovery is because you’re not interested. You’re sneaking in your ideas and calling it being on topic. You are using me.
Ecmandu: You don’t take mental illness into account. Where people forced to make the worst decisions for themselves.
You also have the temerity to say once we agree that we’re all slaves the world will finally be at peace.
Peacegirl: It’s the complete opposite. It’s your faulty understanding of no free will, which when understood, gives us the greatest freedom imaginable. This just shows me how totally ignorant you are. Now please stop this consent violation, or you will be the biggest hypocrite EVER!!!
Ecmandu: Imagining no freewill is like trying to imagine absolute nothingness. It’s impossible. You can’t be a sentient being in absolute determinism. You can’t be sentient in absolute chaos either.
Peacegirl: Absolute determinism is your concocted idea of what it means, like many philosophers have done. It’s a false definition because determinism cannot make you into a slave since we still have choice. You are so very confused but if your beliefs help you, the more power to you. Just don’t use this thread to pretend you’re on topic.
Ecmandu: Ichthus decided to keep the thread on topic by making your argument in his way.
He’s making the same argument in the sense that unless we surrender our will to god, there will always be strife.
The whole thing has been on topic PG.
Peacegirl: No one is surrendering their will to any god. You’re lying to yourself that you’ve been on topic in order to save face that you have not violated me. Nothing remotely resembles what I came here to discuss. Not only are you a hypocrite but you’re delusional. Your agenda has nothing whatsoever to do with this thread! Please go somewhere else or you are exploiting me! Live up to your own principles for god’s sake! 
PG,
You are projection central all over this thread.
I tell you about ODD and you call ME ignorant
I tell you about absolute determinism not being able to hold sentience … and you call me off topic.
I tell you that absolute chaos cannot bind a pattern … and you call me off topic.
I tell you that that means it has to be somewhere in the middle (which is the definition of compatiblism)
- there’s no other possibility logically
Then like a megalomaniac dictator, you ALWAYS tell me that I’m off topic because I proved you wrong, and that I’m not interested because I proved you wrong.
That’s abusive behavior.
It’s like saying a rapist is having their consent violated by being sent to prison. You always can speak to abuse and you can also work to reveal the abuse in order to disempower the abuser. Which is what I’m doing to you.
Mitra Sauwelios and I had a brief repartee while he was here; Ec, about the Nietzchien significance as it relates generally to Man’s predicament.
Since all know by now I am an inverted kind of logical, they cannot figure how the substance of this logical manifestation attaches to the essence of it’s underlying reality.
A reality one can not presume, but accept by its manifestation.
I simply suggested that a power to will subsumed a will to power because those without the power can not liberate themselves from whatever it’s binding them
The freedom to live freely rather than bound subsists within this general power to go under the obviously painful aspects of life of the one, the singular creative man who is searching within those aspects of the creation that is available to him singularly from his point of view in his situation.
He can not develop the power to see beyond because the singular man is bound to his situation.He is powerless to under stand the essential manifestation of his Being, because he can not will such an experience for nofnpower.
He is a slave of the shortcoming of lacking the power to submerge himself from his own sense of powerlessness fir lack of the need to will the insubstantial essentially Parr of himself that appears unreasonable and confusing to him.
The simplicity of good is an undescribable power that overwhelm those who can never experienced it’s enormous leverage in unearthing the evilnobstacles that are covering suchmpiwer, and are afraid to go under as Jesus did dare go there and face and meet darkness head on.
Fear conquered of and in darkness, looses it’s devusuvempower to drain the will from even trying to move that immense Boulder, and as it was moved mysteriously as witnessed after the Resurrection.
Does that make any sense?
Meno.
I have a decent mind. I’m pretty aware of my surroundings.
There is no heroism in hell.
There is no heroism in conquering hell.
Because it shouldn’t be there in the first place.
I agree, but I’ve been in he’ll as werr, and I cane out of it , although now that I am beginning to understand he’ll better, it lost some of it’s awful hold on me, the fear of it has lessened somewhat .
I consider both You and me heroic in the sense that we have been able to overcome to a degree hell’s confusing power to feed off our will’s power to survive. The will to power has negative consequences if that power reinforces man as that being who essentially looks in the mirror and idolized himself apart from his benevolence and kindness, as children are said to be able to br a reflection of.
I dunno , it’s a trifle original difference.
I agree, but I’ve been in he’ll as werr, and I cane out of it , although now that I am beginning to understand he’ll better, it lost some of it’s awful hold on me, the fear of it has lessened somewhat .
I consider both You and me heroic in the sense that we have been able to overcome to a degree hell’s confusing power to feed off our will’s power to survive. The will to power has negative consequences if that power reinforces man as that being who essentially looks in the mirror and idolized himself apart from his benevolence and kindness, as children are said to be able to br a reflection of.
I dunno , it’s a trifle original difference., but in adulthood it becomes a gaping echoing cavern with no reassurance that the sense of it can ever be recalled not less revisited.
I dunno…I believe this capacity of an to be intractable and ‘tacit’- my favorite word.
I’m working my heart out to change all of existence with everyone.
I will never accept hell.
It’s worth noting that Ecmandu is a mentally ill individual. He doesn’t make it a secret and I think he even said on several occasions that he has an official diagnosis – that of schizophrenia.
Some of his confessions:
ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.p … 3#p2844511
ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.p … 3#p2844643
I don’t mind his ideas – I have even entertained some of them on multiple occasions – but he’s a known thread hijacker and a preacher. As far as I’m concerned, that’s enough to strip him of all posting privileges until he fixes his behavior. At the same time, however, one has to wonder whether it’s actually good for him to be around this place, even if he’s not violating any rules.
That’s good enough as far as the fact goes that all are afflicted by various conditionals I’ll connected to Conditions not properly understood.
Saint Augustine writes in His Confessiins of the astounding difficulty with self liberation in the process of moving toward the light, as his mother , also Sainte, Monica ascribes to it.
I am with people who know the power of he’ll, and they need prayers to help them fight that challenge.
Philosophy predated psychology, and I think may be the only tool with which to fight off demons who have only the destruction of our soul in their mind.
Aside from massive voices and demonic possessions…
That I handle with grace.
My mental illness is that I’m sane. The world is crazy.
I’m locked in a cage in a zoo because I’m sane in a crazy world.
I’m not alone though.
What I’ve figured out about people is that they get defensive because they’ve never experienced the supernatural… they feel left out.
Don’t feel left out. People have different skills. This is another thing people get defensive about.
You’d be crushed like a bug if you were exposed to what I’m exposed to.
My mind is more powerful than yours in this realm.
That makes people feel inferior.
Don’t feel inferior.
Just debate me. You’ll figure out very quickly why I’m still alive… I have a genius here and I adapted.
I mean… we all live forever.
Another thing… I take no personal pride in being able to win debates about stuff that should never have existed in the first place.
My burden does not give me more ego. It makes me sad at times that the burden is not equally distributed (unfair)… but then I realize, they’d be crushed like bugs under this weight.
And I don’t want you to be crushed like bugs.
[quote=“Ecmandu”]
PG,
You are projection central all over this thread.
I tell you about ODD and you call ME ignorant
I tell you about absolute determinism not being able to hold sentience … and you call me off topic.
Peacegirl: Because you’re wrong.
Ecmandu: I tell you that absolute chaos cannot bind a pattern … and you call me off topic.
Peacegirl: You ARE off topic because you have made this thread YOUR topic.
Ecmandu: I tell you that that means it has to be somewhere in the middle (which is the definition of compatiblism)
Peacegirl: Compatibilism is a semantic shift to satisfy the status quo. You are interjecting your own ideas without any grasp of what I’m sharing.
Ecmandu: - there’s no other possibility logically
Then like a megalomaniac dictator, you ALWAYS tell me that I’m off topic because I proved you wrong, and that I’m not interested because I proved you wrong.
That’s abusive behavior.
Peacegirl: You did not prove me wrong. It is YOU who is abusive. Face it and atone for taking over this thread without my consent!
Ecmandu: It’s like saying a rapist is having their consent violated by being sent to prison. You always can speak to abuse and you can also work to reveal the abuse in order to disempower the abuser. Which is what I’m doing to you.
Peacegirl: I am not the abuser, you are by violating your first commandment.
I’m not an advocate of free will because we don’t have free will. Did I give you that impression? It’s a tall order to ask me to start a new thread. I suggest that you read the first three chapters of Decline and Fall of All Evil. That way you will have a much better grasp of what this is about and I can then answer sny questions you may have.
PG wrote:
Peacegirl: You ARE off topic because you have made this thread YOUR topic.
Ecmandu replies:
And that’s the problem. It’s OUR topic.
You are such a dictator megalomaniac that you’ve thrown away logic to be the ‘savior’
Reality doesn’t work that way.
Ecmandu making fun of PG (you deserve it)
If everyone would just believe bananas can’t be peeled, there’d be world peace!!!
Obey me!!!
For the record, I don’t believe in determinism. See previous on perfect subsuming permissive. Not the same as determinism.