The subconscious is without direction of the general conscious in order to fulfill a lie in the first place so that is a reasonable statement.
Sometimes, you are hard to follow.
Hate cannot just exist by itself, independent of everything else. You cannot just hate for no apparent reason. If you feel hate then you must care, on some level. If you hate life (existence), then you must care about it. Do you express your love/caring through hate?
Please don’t use fancy Latin phrases if you can’t answer the question: “What is the post hoc I have treated as a propter hoc here?”
No, you hate the pain. Interfere with what? “Interfere” is an anthropomorphism.
You hate yourself - your being miserable (i.e., a miserable being) -, but you project your hate outward.
“The fox condemns the trap, not himself.”
[William Blake.]
Again your taking your outlook and saying that those who dont have it are liers. I love life can you proove that I do not or do you just assume it. Alot of the time I dont like things that happen in life but i understand that alot of it is necessary and that I can make a difference for the better.
Your argument for pessimism is alot poorer than mine. You call optimists delusional, your belife is backed up by nothing but your own bitterness, a belife you cannot back up is often seen as delusional. Mine however proves the point that if you look on the bright side, life shines back and loves you too.
So dont be bitter, if you do something about your unhappyness instead of wollowing in it you will get what you deserve
Apart from that typo, it was clear I meant everything is the result of me living.
More mobbing? I hate life because my brain is ironically (possibility of evil God) not geared to deal with life, hence hate. your attempts to prove me an idiot are pathetic.
Sauwelios, can’t you just stop persisting with this? Do not use the “I hate myself and I hate hate” game or the “You didn’t answer my question” game.
Edit: And what are you going on about with “Fancy latin phrases”? Haven’t you read up on logical fallicies? Almost all of them are written in latin ala “ad hominem”.
But you don’t have anything to back up your belief, whereas I do. You say you love life…why do you love life? Let’s go really deep…you [b]love[/b] satiation, not life. Someone who is addicted to drugs does not mean they like it. Why is your pain necessary if it continues the tautology? For the better? Do you really love life? What is this state of better? Won’t it really be the same as you are now?
No, it’s backed up by the belief that life is pain and nothing can justify it. Life does not love you; the world was not geared to make you happy, you’re just here to suffer and survive in order to take it.
Tell that to the people in Africa why don’t you? “Don’t wollow in it”. Ahhh…arrogance and ignorance, how long will it take until you realise you have nowhere to run to?
I am not trying to prove you pathetic. I am trying to understand you.
The world is an evil tautology, and we should end it. That sums up what I’m trying to say.
How evasive you are. I have nothing against Latin phrases, as long as they are used correctly. So what is the post hoc I have taken for a propter hoc above?
And are you suggesting my critique on your position consists of ad hominem arguments? In the actual sense, perhaps (not in the sense it is usually used: as “personal insult”): I think your pessimism follows from your ill-constitutedness (as it did in the case of Schopenhauer, according to Nietzsche (but then Nietzsche did not regard Schopenhauer as an actual pessimist: for his enemies - Hegel, woman, life - kept him attached to life. I think this also goes for you: you are no nihilist, because you give a damn (even though it’s only a damn)).
I’ve worked in africa as an aid worker, obviously you have not. Yes in the most extream of cases they have hard times, and in a famine its likely that many of them will become pessimistic about their situation though its not so much pessimism as realism for them. But getting back to the point, I think you will find that most of the impoverished are exeptionally chipper. They have to be, hope helps survival.
You have still come up with no reason why pessimism is actually going to get you anywhere in life. Thats probobly because it wont. Never mind
The proof is that pain is not outweighed with pleasure. Typical response “No, you didn’t”, uhhh…
How about, there is a similar chance that they are both likely to be optimist or pessimist. Combing optimism and drugs, it works. Realising you have to be a slave to life made you “clean”, that’s what becoming an optimist is. You’re not answering what is this “state of happiness”, what is it?
Can you counter-argument instead of saying I have nothing to back up my beliefs? I just gave a reason that pain cannot be outweighed with joy. I could continue in this ad-hominem stupidity by saying you have nothing to back up your beliefs, only your own weakness.
I haven’t, who cares, doesn’t make my argument wrong. There you have it…“hope helps survival” because it’s running away from the reality of death…if you were so benevolent you wouldn’t tell them to be happy, you’d do your best to call in the powers-that-be to help them. My belief is too realistic, this is why you are on the boards to argue with me; justifying insecurities.
Neither will get you anywhere. You seem to misunderstand what I’m going on about. I want us to cease to exist as we are giving it to life by continuing ourselves. This is not a guide for life, there is no guide.
That I hate Hate, that is the post hoc ergo propter hoc. How does one hate Hate, Sauwelios? How do I hate myself because of that argument? I hate the world and death, neither were meant to be pressed onto my psyche. Your argument of trying to loop me into a circle goes flat; one does not abhor the emotion, one abhors the thing/s that cause the emotion.
That’s Nietzsche talking in you with “ill constitution”, everyone has an “ill constitution” to life…sanity (non-medical ailments) is simply the result of realising you cannot do anything to stop life hurting you. Insanity is the lack of that realisation.
Everyone is a nihilist, we’ve already established that. I give a damn because I’ve been raped, it’s that simple.
Im done with you, ive presented arguments and evidence why optimism is the better way to live life, you have responded with no argument but meirly said that the pain outways the pleasure. Which if it were true would mean we would all be pessimists, which we are not. Are you so blind to not be able to see that its simply state of mind, and that 1 state of mind can let you live a full and happy life while the other puts you in a miserable state waiting for death? The blessing of life is wasted on people like you.
Enjoy your misery
What is the post hoc here? And what is the propter hoc?
Hate is the expression of a bad feeling as well as the feeling itself. So hating hate means to express one’s feeling bad at one’s feeling bad (which in turn gives rise to the feeling and expression of feeling bad at feeling bad at feeling bad, etc. etc.). This is the self-negation of negation I elaborated above.
“[T]o suffer from reality one must be a botched reality…”
[Nietzsche, The Antichristian, section 15, trans. Mencken.]
So you’re saying you don’t abhor the bad feelings that you harbour? You actually enjoy them? For it is a question of enjoying or suffering, however slightly - there is no middle ground.
If everyone is a nihilist, the term is meaningless, as I’ve told you several times. To call someone a nihilist is only meaningful if there is also the possibility of one’s not being a nihilist. If the latter means a lack of realisation, means “insanity”, so be it (I’m reminded of Heidegger’s use of the word verrückt in this video fragment I saw on YouTube. I cannot link to it now, as YouTube is having problems).
“Post hoc ergo propter hoc” means the fallacy of suggesting because of one thing, it must mean another thing. You understand now? Look on wikipedia for it.
Hate is the occurence from anger, not at one’s feeling bad, anger comes after that. This stupid ad-hominem is going to come to an end here.
Nietzsche can talk on that one, everyone is a botched reality when our brains are too powerful for the earth.
I don’t hate my feelings, that’s a reaction, I hate the causer, not the causation. Enjoyment is relief, nothing more.
Since we are all nihilists, can we not give it anymore to the world?
Just like standard23, ha ha ha. Instead of swallowing your pride and admitting something you deny, you use ad-hominem.
Once again, people disappoint me with their weakness. Look into my other topic about happiness, you’ll see another person the same way as you.
[size=200]You don’t think your reaction’s telltale?[/size] Why are you suddenly writing poorly? Have I cracked the egg-shell, fellow sufferer?
Because of one thing, it must mean another thing? You make no sense at all now. I did look it up on Wikipedia. So what is the post hoc I have treated as a propter hoc here?
What? Please express yourself more clearly.
I do make sense; Hegel suggested that because it seems (in his opinion) that humans are seeking absolutment, there must be a Geist we induce in this world. That is a fallacy because he has no proof of such a thing, hence “post hoc ergo propter hoc”. And I already told you before, that I hate Hate, this is a fallacy.
Look, I know you’re trying to spin me into a circle. Could you just end it?
I’m pretty sure I told you that feelings follow feelings. Hate is the occurence from anger, not from what as you call “feeling from feeling” in the emotional sense.
Are you European by any chance, Sauwelious? Seeing as you have the german flag upside down.
This is the topic which got me to start thinking on the Will to Power and Will to Live. Very very interesting…
Perhaps I missed it or have forgotten your reasoning, but why is it that you feel the total amount of suffering one experiences in life is greater than the total amount of pleasure one experiences. This doesn’t seem very self evident to me - they seem to be, at worst, around equal.
However, from an evolutionary standpoint, it seems we should find more pleasure than pain.
It’s so interesting because prior to my WTP vs WTL thread, I found myself agreeing with you for the most part. This is when I was thinking in terms of the Will To Live. However, in looking at this from the standpoint that it is not life we want, but other things (which happen to support life), I find myself not agreeing with you as much.
Anyway, why is it that you feel there is more suffering total in our lives than pleasure?
And lastly, you say one does not hate the emotion, but rather the thing(s) that cause that emotion. This seems backwards to me. Why would you hate that which makes you feel a specific feeling unless you already hated the feeling? I hate the feeling of being punched, not the actual hand that punched me. A thing can cause you to suffer at one time, and find pleasure in another. You cannot both hate and not hate that thing at the same time. Don’t you simply hate the feeling of suffering and not hate the feeling of pleasure?