I find myself, like Solomon, praying for wisdom. I desire wisdom so that I will be fit to rule, or know what rule to follow. But there are many questions lurking in this statement, the most important one being, for me at this juncture, what does it mean to pray for wisdom? Is praying for wisdom simply asking God for wisdom, or must we ask in a certain way? Also, how do we know if God has answered our prayer, or how do we recognize wisdom when we see it? Will we simply know, as the people do in Ivan’s poem, when Jesus walks among them? And if we will recognize wisdom if we see it, does this mean that we will recognize it in ourselves too, if and when it finally comes? What if we pray for wisdom and it doesn’t come, does this mean we failed in our prayer, or God failed us? In order to hedge our bets, are there other ways to know wisdom, other than through prayer? If prayer is simply communicating with God, then is it possible for God to make God’s will known through something else? What does it mean to pray? “Thy will be done, Father” is what Jesus tells us to pray, but what is God’s will? What does wisdom say and how do we hear it, and know it when we see it? What are the other ways of contacting wisdom, if there are other ways than prayer?
that is such a nice post.
What if it were wisdom to realize that in your questioning, your word “God” and “pray” had a slightly different understanding than you have presumed them to have. What if;
“God” really had meant what you would today call “Reality” and
“to pray” really meant “to seek of”
Reasking the question;
(might want to try re-reading Genesis with that in mind sometime too)
So then, if such were the case, you would be merely asking, “how do we know wisdom when we receive it?”
How would you know that 2+2 really equal 4?
An ancient Hebrew might have told you that you would know because Elohim would tell you. He would have been right. But again, in modern English, what he would be referring to is that the sum of all of your thoughts, most humbly considered, would balance with perfect clarity and no question remaining. It is often merely referred to as “perfect humble confidence”.
Seek perfect clarity and 100% inner agreement in every thought (consistency - not the slightest question) and you “pray always” of the Father that formed you, Reality (Truth) just as recommended.
OF course, asking for confirmation and cross verification is a really good way to ensure accuracy. 
“Clarify, Verify, and Remember the Hopes and Threats toward Maximum Momentum of Self-Harmony.”
Agreed.
Let us try to understand the Will of God not as just “what shall be done” but also “how (inwardly) one shall bring oneself to be”.
To know the Will of God may certainly be called the highest ineffable wisdom. I close my eyes, and a great army arrives to the battlefield, an untold number of professional soldiers. One man imbued with this wisdom will defeat my army and every other imaginable army. They will call it a miracle in the newspaper. But that is stupidity. If I (truly) am the expression of God’s Will, who can stand against me?
To know the Will of God is to “follow” God dutifully. The word “follow” is incorrect, because the proper meaning inside this word should have to be “union”.
Following, because the two are adjoined as one.
Bene orasse est bene studuisse. - After reflecting on these subjects you may wisely pray like so: “O, God. Help me to do your Will.” And “O, God, let your Will become my reality.” It’s important to understand what you are saying, so that the tongue is not clucking words all on its own and in vain, and you are cautioned against asking for this before everything is ready on your side.
-WL
I’ve to tell you that the saddest thing you can do to yourself is ask god for those things like wisdom.
What has wisdom done for Solomon? Who is Solomon? Solomon is a dead man. Solomon is a has been. . Solomon is nowhere man.
The bible where all the nice questions are asked. Lets go there .
ِA man , a wealthy man asks Jesus … good teacher what must I do to earn eternal life ?
Jesus being a most patient teacher doesn’t hit him with thunder bolts and instead replies …why do you call me good teacher , god is the only good , but if you must you know the law you know.you know . hey you know
I tell you guys Jesus cracks me up so much .dealing with humans he had to poke fun at us .
God is the only good one . stop there . When Jesus makes a pronouncement you better stop . don’t make one single step forward . Just stop right there .What’s it all about Alfie ?
I’m thinking if god is the only good one then I shouldn’t be asking Jesus for eternal life. I would want god and not eternal life . I’m a very wise medicine man . I’m not about to insult god by asking him to give less than he can. The gift of a god must be worthy of a god and the only worthy gift of god is to give himself. Anything else you’re asking hm to short change you .its no good. you must honor god .
However Jesus does answer the man question. This is an act of accepting. To answer the question is to accept the question. Always remember that . when you ask Jesus for something you make sure he is going to accept it . don’t get upset when he doesn’t answer .its not him. you asked tan acceptable. question.
This seemingly leads to a contradiction in the logic . here Jesus says one thing and then he is also saying that its okay to ask for eternal life .
Is it ? is it a contradiction?
I don’t think so. Jesus refers to himself as eternal life . come ye to me and I will give you a life that doesn’t wither away . there is some kind of equivalency between eternal life and god . its mystery . it’s the trinity.
I think the Christians are right when they tell you to ask Jesus to come into your life. The steps of a good man are ordered by god.its the gift of god of himself.
Jesus other statement to the man is that he is missing one thing . not something but one thing . One again . its always that “one” with Jesus . he says I’m come to complete the law .
Then Jesus disciples they ask him…how’s it possible? And Jesus says with god everything is possible.
What’re they talking about ? I thought we were talking about a wealthy guy trying to get eternal life ! we weren’t talking about you peter or about you Simon. . we’re wealthy with life .
he got the whole world in his hands . oh boy . oh boy oh boy. I think I go take me a herb .
so alyshoka here where you’ve been hiding from me ? you can run but you can’t hide
Is knowing this wisdom?
My problem with your approach is that it removes God from the equation, and even has the tenacity to replace God with “Reality” (can you say idolatry?). All we need is a good head on our shoulders and a logical mind according to you.
What you say here reminds me of Plato’s Parmenides. Have you read it? In it, Parmenides recommends that we learn “idle talk”, which is effectively doing what you say here, viz., knowing “the sum of all your thoughts”. The problem is, as Parmenides demonstrates “the sum of all his thoughts” in the dialogue, the result isn’t “balance” and “perfect clarity and no question remaining”, but rather contradiction, and we’re left even more lost after the demonstration than we were before.
If you haven’t read this dialogue, I highly recommend it, because I see it as the perfect critique of your kind of thought, and how what you describe here is not the way of truth. Also, in order not to confuse, it is my understanding of the dialogue that this is Parmenides’ point, to show us that this way you describe fails.
But then, if you understood his writings, you would be able to defend his view rather than merely reference him. Is it wisdom to worship a writer in place of understanding what he has written?
Your choice.
Sure.
Yes, but I would qualify this. God seeks our approval and, even, our reproaches. For example, Abraham and Moses both reproach God for being short in wisdom. So while I think the will of God is always wisdom, and that God desires it to be the highest sort, the situation is not so simple.
The problem with my understanding, of course, is that wisdom threatens to take precedence over God, and I wonder if this means I engage in idolatry. Wisdom is God’s firstborn, which makes wisdom a creature. And putting any creature before God, isn’t that idolatry?
Christ had this wisdom, but he was defeated by powers in the world. Or at least, they were able to pin him to the cross even if he had the final victory. I think the question “If God is on my side, who can stand against me?” is a rhetorical question. It’s not a statement that nobody can stand against me, but rather it’s asking who, in their right mind, would stand against wisdom?
Sure. I’m happy with either ‘follow’ or ‘unite’. When I think unite, which is the language I would tend to use myself, I find myself in the domain of love. That’s another question that’s always on my mind: what is the relation between wisdom and love? Is God wise? Is God loving? Is one a better descriptor of God’s essential nature?
That’s great, but it doesn’t help me come any closer in my prayers. I respect the need to “understand what I’m saying” when I pray, but all you’ve given, in way of help, is that the goal is to unite with wisdom, which I already know, and that “everything must be ready on my side” before I pray. What does this mean? How do I “make myself ready”?
Defend his view? Ha! Do you know what you ask of me?!
To defend his view I’d have to undertake precisely what he does in the dialogue, namely a complete exposition of an hypothesis in terms of all its consequences, and not only this, but to do so twice over, so that two completely legitimate but also contradictory demonstrations of consequences result from making the same hypothesis.
That is a huge task, which is why I referred you to the dialogue, where Plato’s Parmenides does it a thousand times better than I could ever hope to do.
What I take this demonstration to mean is that the method of hypothesis and logical demonstration is not sufficient for truth, by which I mean producing what is one and the same. In a somewhat crude sense, you can prove whatever you want, so if you see truth in this method then you condemn yourself to a lifetime of, what Parmenides calls in his own writings, “being of two minds, knowing nothing, wandering aimlessly in thought”.
I don’t understand why this is the case. Why do you frown so much upon wisdom? Because wisdom isn’t God? …
So if I understand you, what we should pray for is God, not wisdom. But what does it mean to pray for God then? Is not a prayer for God a prayer for wisdom?
Yes, and I return to the example of Solomon, who prays for wisdom. God is glad about this, that Solomon didn’t ask for riches or, as you say here, eternal (or at least long) life. But in granting wisdom to Solomon, God grants him these lesser things as well.
But the question remains: what meaningful difference is there between praying for God and praying for wisdom?
I saw a screed of birch-bark, on which anonymous has written:
PAY HOMAGE TO GOD AND
YOUR WISE ANCESTOR
LIVE CONSCIENTIOUSLY AND IN HARMONY WITH THE EARTH
IF HOWEVER YOU SEEK THE HIGHEST WISDOM-
KNOW YOURSELF.
Who, after thinking this through, would ever disagree that this simple formula is at the same time an excellent hint concerning the Will of God?
-WL
I would ask, Why would you pray for more than you are and have? Do you go before god and say, thanks for all you have given me, but I need more? Would wisdom not be living your life to the best of your ability and be nothing but grateful for the opportunity? Did god forget to give you the intelligence, the tools, the materials, with which to fashion your life? Go out tonight and look up at the stars. Then tell god he forgot to give you something. To ask god for anything is ingratitude.
Wisdom as in Solomon wisdom for sure . I wouldn’t want that wisdom . you know we have saying that goes… A king is like one who rides a lion . everyone envies him but only he knows best that which he rides .
God was pleased . it’s a pleasure to be insulted even by you Solomon. The result God condemned Israel. No more Israel. The kingdom split .
Listen to me . if you see god in a dream move quickly. plant your foot firmly on the ground and stoop forward and jump and grab him. It happened to me once .I detected him . I jumped and I grabbed him but it only lasted for a fraction of second though and he got away .some guy in the bible wrestled with him all nite long. That was a greater hunter than me .but I’m practicing all the time. the next time he is not going to get away hopefully.
Listen alyshoka there is the incident . I got it from the bible. Clearly Jesus says god is the only good one. So the thing is to home in on god . you have no dispute with me . your dispute is with Jesus .as far as I’m concerned the hunt is on and the prey is god …
Its very silly . Given choice between a long life and a short one , some people will choose a short one full of excitement of a good hunt. a good hunt is hunting god. So go get him alyshoka . don your battle fatigue well. . don’t go to the battle unprepared . Solomon wisdom don’t even make for a thread thread let alone a net .
The answer to your last question is same difference alyshoka . praying is an indulgence . we like to pray because we like to self indulge . all we are doing is fixating ourselves further within ourselves. We like to caste spells. We caste a spell on god and he surrenders .
when I talk to Jesus it usually ends into a big row usually a very loud and angry shouting match . I look up and start yelling … hey hey you what’s wrong with you , huh ? are you blind or something ? can’t you see what’s happening me ? do something damn it . if you’re not going to do something give me the damn powers then and I’ll show you what to do . do you even know what you’re doing ? obviously you don’t. give me your powers then and I’ll show you what to do . sometimes I get so angry I start calling him names and blasting him . what is this , huh? what is the meaning of this ? You call this a world ? then he gets touchy in turn . one time alyshoka while I was busy hollering and shouting the pot just jumped from the shelf and smashed itself against the floor . I had to go…okay okay I’m sorry , I take it back… I was angry ? didn’t you get angry and beat up the money exchangers . its like that . it happens . it can happen to anybody. My wife also gets into it. She hollers at me … leave him alone . I yell at her …are you on may side or his side? Why you treacherous no good woman and this and that . …go back to your fathers house …. I don’t want you….leave my house … get out . She doesn’t . she goes and gets the frying pan and wants to hit me upside the head with it .I can’t have a decent fight with Jesus in my own house . I tell you god is getting away with murder not having a wife . or does he ?
The will of god is not like anything you’re thinking .its in us . its weird thing very much so. . it has no thinking and no wishing in it . its not some power to do thing to do incredible things . this is what superman does in Hollywood .That’s nothing . when advanced aliens come to visit us from outer space they will do more super things . . hey did you know that there’re still people on this planet who haven’t actually seen a car . watch what happen when they see one . napoleon with 25 thousand defeated two armies one 45 thousand and the other 65 thousands all at the same time and all things being equal in terms of armament and training …you’re talking about superman or the incredible hulk. but will is not a thought or wishing or power to do something .what it is it is a kind of thing that defies our human minds in that it defies our sense of how we perceive the world. For example in the context of what alyshoka said about Jesus in the cross being pinned down. Will is what makes you victorious when you’re defeated . will is something that attaches itself to our world . . the world out there is not real, is not as real as you think. The will is like some kind of control . therefore its not the will but what it controls . that’s what I home in on. I don’t know how to describe it to you . it’s there in my dreams in visions and its got to do with what the bible talks about when it mentions it as the word when it talks about that word , the word was with god in the beginning . then I wake up and I feel weird and I know I’m back in this world. its three things , that we call god , holy spirit and the son. its not just the will. The other two are there .they are not together in the sense of how together is to us . they are together like simultaneously. Its like listening to three people talking to you at the same time and you can hear them all at once and understand them as if they are one person talking to you. this is what you try to grab in your dreams .
Solomon was a great dreamer but he was self centered . he wished his dreaming which is a testimony to his dreaming skills. He should have grabbed not ask. But it wouldn’t have made any difference . nothing does. To us nothing does . since nothing does then you should grab . action without thought without wishing . act the act of unacting
Maybe if you operate on the basis of everything being perfect, or on the basis of a God who is in meticulous control of everything that happens. I don’t accept either of these though, so for me asking God for something is not a sign of ingratitude. Scripture shows time and again people asking God for things. Hell, even Jesus asked God to relieve his burden.
I’m still not sure what it is that you have against wisdom! I don’t think Solomon possessed the fullness of wisdom, so maybe his wisdom did only amount to a thread and not a net, but you seem to deride his wisdom beyond this.
And why is it that wisdom, for you, makes up the threads in a net? Why is it a tool of cunning and capture? Why do you want to hunt God, or make God your prey?
Indeed, how inwardly, how passionately one gives oneself to the present moment - for deep within the present is that for which we look elsewhere in vain - and by affirming with all one’s mind, body, and soul all that is, was, and forever will be, we thereby cooperate with and become instruments of the divine will.
One cannot avoid the Will of God - one can only choose to cooperate with it.
“One who conquers himself is greater than another who conquers a thousand times a thousand on the battlefield.”
“He who rules his spirit has won a greater victory than the taking of a city.”
“Knowing others is intelligence; knowing yourself is true wisdom. Mastering others is strength; mastering yourself is true power.”
“One can have no smaller or greater mastery than mastery of oneself.”
Yes, because tat tvam asi - to know the Will of God is to become what you are.
tentative,
Praying won’t do it - the desire/need and the will and action will do it…to continue becoming.
And how would someone ‘in their wisdom’ know that they were actually living their life to the best of their ability …if they just accepted that that was ‘the best of their ability’? Isn’t that sort of settling? Is that wisdom, Tenty? 
God?
Tent, am I rubbing off on you? 
To ask for anything is awareness of desire and need. There is no ingratitude in that.
- isn’t that sort of like talking to yourself?
[quote=“arcturus rising”]
tentative,
Agreed - except for the desire part, maybe.
We attend to our needs and the needs of others. Knowing when one has enough, knowing when to stop, isn’t “settling”, it is contentment. That seems fairly wise to me. 
Or whatever label you choose. Since this is about prayer, it is praying to someone or something. What do you suggest?
We’ve discussed rubbing before, I’m game… 
[quoteTo ask for anything is awareness of desire and need. There is no ingratitude in that.[/quote]
We have the awareness and all the tools to satisfy need. To ask for more IS ingratitude. This does not invalidate a statement of gratitude if one is of a mind to do so.
Well, it probably is for you and me, but for those who have a personal creator, it might be different.
Do you realize that when you ask me why I’m against wisdom and when you say that you don’t think "Solomon possessed the fullness of wisdom " you . by your own admission, don’t know what wisdom is ?
You have an ancient way with words. The word acquires a being of itself with you .the word is not about reflecting a fact . you hold the word to posses a being of its own . your word is independent and free of facts .
Therefore for me to dispute with you about Solomon or your perception that Solomon had some wisdom would be a mistake .all a I’ll be doing I will be just declining to confirm to a conception of language which is not that of a modern mind set or that of my mind .
Fact of the matter it would be irrelevant of me to mention that kingship is an act of disobedience to god according to the bible .or that the truth of the story of Solomon that the bible wants to get across is that of false sense of nationalism that put buildings and wealth and what have you above people .yes , it was never Solomon by himself . many were in on it . and I was being irrelevant that time when I raised the matter of which came first the world or wisdom.
you have the making of a shaman .alyshoka you should do rituals. you will be a good ritual master .shamans have gift for that sort of thing .
Jesus said to follow him. the man who walks on water says to follow him . this is going to require top notch tracking skills . the net will have to be made of luminous rays of light . this is not a net that goes in water . this is a net that’s above water . its not cunning its skill and unswerving intent , constant , determined , without complaint without second thoughts with total confidence in the final outcome which is that nothing matters
What tool are we talking about ? what need ?
You don’t even have the tool to match a woman. Her sexual organ is far more complex and more advanced than a man
maybe i should become shaman myself. if you can’t beat them, join them