Fair enough. But I’m not so sure there is a direct connection, unless I don’t understand what you mean by direction connection, though I do understand the word ‘direct’. Even you yourself, Alyoshka, don’t simply open the bible, read it, close it and expect a deluge of wisdom to come pouring into you, do you?
But I don’t think of this as prayer, Alyoshka. This is study and reflection and trying to understand how our own lives relate to what we read in the bible, what the stories speak to us. As you just said – “Understanding Job’s conversation with God is hard work”.
Now perhaps the part that may be prayer is when you would cease the reading and the thinking and put yourself into a still quiet moment and ask your god for the wisdom to know what this god says to you through all of these words. In this case, the work comes BEFORE the prayer.
And then again, you may ‘seeing’ all of this, as a total form of prayer, as when people use the phrase in regard to church worshipping – ‘singing is praying twice.’ in a sense.
And what about these conversations stands out uppermost in your mind that make them so easy for you to understand?
Well, I did say that that could be considered prayer though I don’t actually consider it as such. To me, it is simply internal dialogue, critical thinking perhaps. But if I put myself into your place, your position, then perhaps I could consider that prayer, Alyoshka, a dialogue between yourself and God and trying to understand what this God is saying to you through the words of the bible.
Well, I would say that knowing the difference between what we can and cannot change is a good starting point for wisdom, Alyoshka.
Even IF, with a personal god, all things were possible, this STILL doesn’t mean that this god would choose to grant our every wish, our every desire. Your thought is based on that assumption. Yes, there are some things which are possible for us, and some that are not, at least in a real world. To pray to a god and expect this god to give us something, that if looked at in a reasonable and logical and in an honest way, is beyond our capacity to have or god’s to give, is living in a fantasy world. So in knowing the difference, there is wisdom. And there is also wisdom in our capacity to see what is real and what is simply our illusions. Perhaps part of the problem for me here lies in the notion that ‘all things are possible’ - but that even being the case, i would personally intuit a god that would be more discriminating in its actions, no matter how much we prayed or stormed the heavens. That kind of praying could only bring conflict and disharmony albeit that may not necessarily be a bad thing - that in itself could be the beginning of wisdom. ![]()
And doesn’t hard work require energy, just like the vehicle requires the fuel to get it started and running? Maybe you just don’t like the analogy of the fuel with prayer. I don’t mean it in an undermining way, Alyoshka. But prayer can be like an ‘energy’ that starts up our minds and spirits. Many people I think would say that prayer is ‘energizing’ – would you?