Semiotics

I can agree with that.

That’s the name of your book.

I can agree that female minds have a tendency to think in terms of “If it works, then it’s true” but I don’t think it has anything to do with definitions (I don’t think there’s any difference between how female minds define words and how other people define them.) Instead, I’d say it’s a direct consequence of their shallow, surface-level, style of reasoning.

What female minds struggle with, it seems, is self-awareness and logical consistency. Since their self-awareness is limited, they have trouble explaining what they mean by their words. And since they are associative thinkers, rather than logical thinkers, they can often be seen speaking in terms of “My truth” and “Your truth”, confusing two related but different concepts: that of truth with that of opinion.

Well, if truth is a perspective, and each one of us has their own perspective, then it follows that there are such things as “My truth” and “Your truth”. But that’s not the case, right? And that’s because truth is not a perspective. Perspective is merely a different word for opinion and opinions are not necessarily truths because opinions can be false. The correct definition of the word “truth” is “true belief”. In other words, truth is a belief that corresponds to reality.

There is also no such thing as truths that are more probable and truths that are less probable. Truths are truths. Either something is true or it isn’t. Either the Sun will rise tomorrow or it won’t. It makes no sense to say “The truth that the Sun will rise tomorrow is 99% probability”. Probability pertains to beliefs. Specifically, it’s a measure of how confident we are in our beliefs. “The probability that the Sun will rise tomorrow is 99%” means “I am 99% confident that the Sun will rise tomorrow”.

Truth is indeed binary (i.e. something is either true or not) though in some cases it can also be multi-valued (e.g. a theory can be true in some but not all regards.)

But I agree that truth is separate from utility. What’s true is not necessarily useful and what’s useful is not necessarily true.

Right. A masculine mind is open to being wrong regarding any one of his beliefs. That’s what you’re trying to say – and that’s what I agree with – but you’re incorrectly associating it with truth.

There is no absolute truth, as there is no omniscience…no possibility.

In a fluctuating existence all is rearranging.
What we call truth is the pattern we think we’ve found underlying all perceptible patterns - order.
But since neither is order absolute, but there is also chaos, absolute truth can never be.
Chaos is the eternally incomprehensible, yet existent.
We name things to offer us the illusion that the unknown is now known - reducing our anxiety.
We name things to make the threatening intimate. We think that because we named it that we understand it.
Knowledge is not understanding.

Truth is circusmtantial…it refers to a set of relationships at a given point in space/time.
Point = a generalization/simplification of a period encompassing possibilities/probabilities.
The encompassing is based on the processing speeds of the observer’s mind - his particular metabolic rhythms.

I am not exactly sure what “absolute truth” is but I can make a guess. Since the word “absolute” means “complete”, I interpret “absolute truth” to mean “complete truth”. And let’s say that a truth is said to be complete truth if and only if it contains no falsehoods. Are there such truths? Isn’t it obvious that there are? An example would be “The Sun will rise tomorrow”. There is not a shred of falsehood within that statement, isn’t there? And if that statement for some strange reason turns out to be false, then its colloraly, which is “The Sun will not rise tomorrow”, will be an instance of complete truth. There’s no alternative. It’s either one or the other.

I can accept that all is rearranging but that doesn’t seem particularly relevant to the issue at hand.

We think that our model of reality is truth and that’s why we call it truth. It’s not necessarily so. But the definition of the word “truth” is not “our model of reality”. The definition of the word “truth” is “a model of reality that corresponds to reality”. That can be my model reality, it can be your model of reality, it can be anyone’s model of reality, it can be noone’s model of reality – the only condition is that it’s true.

Are you absolutely certain the sun will rise tomorrow…or are you so certain, given precedent and what you know of the sun and earth, that the probabiltiy is so high that you call it “absolutely certain”?

Absolute = indivisible, immutable.
That’s how I use the term. Indicating a singularity, the god-particle.
To know the absolute truth implies you have a god’s perspective of the universe…and the uni-verse is a a indivisible, immutable complete whole.
If not…all you have are proximations or estimations of probability.

Now don’t go into “truth is there is no truth” and “there are absolutely no absolutes” because I’ve gone through why linguistics cause paradoxes elsewhere, and I refuse to do so again here.

How can you know the truth if it changes?

Yes…so truth is an evaluation of how the mental map - in your head - relates to the geography - outside your mind.
But the geography is fluid, not static, so the mental map may be useful, or accurate within a range of time but not indefinitely.
It must be continuously adjusted and reaffirmed.
It is why consciousness evolved - to deal with flux, in real-time.
Free-will is that.

We may have different maps of the geography but they re not equally accurate, because then iamretarded would be correct…all is a social construct imposed on us by the prevailing powers.
He who has power imposes his map on the rest - Postmodernism Marxism - because there is no geography only maps, and we can cooperate to create a mutually beneficial map.

It does not matter how certain I am. The point is that one of the two statements is necessarily true (and completely so.) Basically, regardless of what happens tomorrow, either the statement “The Sun will rise tomorrow” is completely true or the statement “The Sun will not rise tomorrow” is completely true. There is no alternative. If we ask John to adopt the belief that the Sun will rise tomorrow, and Mary to adopt the opposite belief, then, regardless of what happens the next day, we will end up with a person who holds an absolutely (= completely) true belief. How confident they are in their beliefs has nothing to do with it – truth, absolute or not, has nothing to do with confidence.

Alright. But what does “indivisible truth” mean then? or “immutable truth”?

Right. So you’re saying that, in order to know absolute truth, you must have god’s perspective of the universe. I don’t think that’s the case. In fact, you can discover absolute truth purely by chance (which is why Plato said that knowledge isn’t merely true belief but justified true belief.) God’s perspective is necessary if you want to have an extremely high level of confidence. But as I said, truth is defined as a belief that corresponds to reality – how strong that belief is is irrelevant.

Truth does not change. Reality does. Opinions do. But truth does not. You seem to be saying that it’s possible for a statement such as “Hitler was a Nazi” to be true on some days but false on others.

No. Truth is a mental map that corresponds to the geography. Your evaluation of how your mental map relates to the geography is your opinion – merely another mental map – that may or may not be true.

I agree with all of that. I merely disagree that this has anything to do with truth.

Yup. Two different maps describing one and the same portion of space cannot be both true.

It does…you take precedent to establish how confident you are that what has occurred before will continue to occur again…nut it isn’t certain that it will.
The probability is high…but not absolute, not total, not complete.
It is so only within what you know and understand about the world.

Truth that has no doubt.

Justified…in that it agrees with precedent.

The state of certainty is a mental state.
To be certain, confident, that given what you know - which is not complete - and given precedent - past - this is most likely true.

We say, "that’s absolutely true" to express a degree of certainty, not to refer to a singularity, i.e., immutable, indivisible, state.

Truth refers to reality.
Hitler was a Nazi” is a fact…not an indivisible, immutable singularity.
Perhaps like Marx wasn’t a communist, he wasn’t a Nazi, but only used Nazism.

Degree…my mental map may be more true than another’s.

All maps are simplification/generalizations of a fluid geography.
A map may be better than another map, within a given time period.
A map is an approximation, representation, of a geography.

Some have a Tolkien map of Middle Earth, calling it more real…justifying it as existing on a higher dimension.

Maybe disagreeing on semantics is the wrong approach.
Maybe, trying to find the proper definition of a term is a good approach.

Maybe, using the term “truth” not as it is written in a dictionary - referring to text, or to a conventional use - but how the term can be used to connect us to a shared world, is the better approach.

Like the term “morality”. There’s the conventional use, the dictionary definition, expressing the world of man, and then there’s the world independent from man.
How can we harmonize the two so that the word morality", like the word “truth” can bridge the world of man and the world independent from man?
I propose we use the world independent from man to discipline how man defines concepts within his world.
Real/Ideal

Semiotics represent man’s representations of his understanding/knowledge of the world.
Words are projections connecting man to a world beyond his mind/body.
A world man must adapt/adjust to, or suffer the consequences.

Let’s discipline our metaphysics to our experiences in physis, nature, i.e., the sensually experienced tangible world.
Let this world be the foundation for his metaphysics. and then let this harmony of physics - not theoretical physics - and metaphysics - including theoretical physics, be our starting point for our ideologies, our objectives, our explorations.
Disciplining the mind’s proclivity to imagine to the unforgiving, harsh indifference of reality.

We can still engage in thought experiments, without becoming too invested in them - swept away upon the mind’s fluttering fantasies, floating into the world of pure ideas.
Ah Plato, you freak.

Man is simple. He becomes complicated when he develops language and learns to conceal his simplicity, in motive.
Language becomes a way of negating, repelling, forgetting, un-revealing what is revealed, what may be revealed.
Intricate linguistic threads fabricating garments enveloping him like a womb - adorning himself with insinuating trinkets, forgetting there’s a body underneath…concealed.

Holy shit, did my prose make you feel like such an idiot you felt the need to make multiple threads about it to soothe your ego?

LOL wtf is this.

I am inspired by many things…don’t be so needy.
Weak.
People remind me of what I see in them. You ain’t special.

It’s just the perfect opportunity to use this

Y USE MANY WORDS WEN FEW WURDS DO TRICK
youtube.com/watch?v=_K-L9uhsBLM&t=2s

I don’t follow links…
But keep posting…others do.

It’s a youtube video that I used to make fun of you.

You could have just asked me why I write the way I do. I would have told you, but you decided to be a piece of shit. Let me pretend that you decided to not be a piece of shit troll for a second, I’d have told you:

Here’s the thing, one of the central subjects for me is a structure inherent in reality (it expresses itself in our metaphysics, in music theory, in essentially all levels of reality) that, inherently, shifts in response to language’s invasive tendrils; the only way to speak about it, without causing it to distort due to its own self-motion, is by moving in turn, like a dance. This counter-movement takes the form of “ex-propriating” terms from foreign disciplines, culture-jamming signals, spreading alien mimetics, hijacking a concept from over here and using it to hack an unrelated concept over here, etc. It involves accelerating complexification and rhetorical strategies. It also involves using multiple languages side by side like puzzle pieces in the reconstruction of an otherwise irrecoverable loci of meaning that was aborted by the very semiogenetic event itself- the fracturing of tongues, the Tower of Babel. Using multiple languages in inventive ways allows you to, again, sustain this counter-dance in the face of the subject I am alluding to- which I won’t name explicitly, because I’m keeping this meta. The bizarre prose I venture, filled with references, foreign languages, multiple lexicons and jargons,- this is me performing the necessary counter-movement, a dance needed to keep this subject I am writing about from slipping away. That subject? Ah, you can piece together what it is from my activity in this forum. Why spoil the fun of it?

If the distinction between moral behaviour - evolved naturally - and ethics - developed to impose additional rules of conduct - is understood, then it becomes clear why a one-god, enforcing strict rewards/punishments, had to be invented.
Yet…still the rules are broken, especially when law & order wane due to an empire’s decline.

Example
Adultery continues in Muslim states with strict rules against it, and despite being punishable by death.
What for some comes naturally - being part of their essence, due to hormonal balances - for others it becomes a law they cannot follow, driven by sexual impulses - hormonally intoxicating.
Selfish genes.
An individual is a means.

But can’t we say the same about memes?
Ideologies?

Semiotics
Movement towards world or away from world.
Exoteric
Esoteric
Subjective towards Objectivity rather than objectivity towards subjectivity - surrender, selective incorporation of the world into subjective needs/desires.

Words/Symbols connecting the mind - noumenon - to the world - phenomenon - the ideal to the real - or inverting the sequence…and connecting the world to the mind.
Concealing the mind from then world, because the world cannot be concealed, but the mind can hide itself from it, imagining that it is revealing what it is selectively, or completely, concealing.
Sleight of Mind.
Sleight of Tongue.

Magic tricks to fool the foolish and those who want to be fooled - entertained, awe struck, mesmerized.

Lorikheet is mad because I use big words, I’m trying to explain to him why I do.

I’m actually levelling with you somewhat and am telling you ‘why’ I use this hyperverbal, inflated language in certain contexts. It’s not a magic trick, I’m not trying to mesmerize you. Like I said,

[size=85]Here’s the thing, one of the central subjects for me is a structure inherent in reality (it expresses itself in our metaphysics, in music theory, in essentially all levels of reality) that, inherently, shifts in response to language’s invasive tendrils; the only way to speak about it, without causing it to distort due to its own self-motion, is by moving in turn, like a dance. This counter-movement takes the form of “ex-propriating” terms from foreign disciplines, culture-jamming signals, spreading alien mimetics, hijacking a concept from over here and using it to hack an unrelated concept over here, etc. It involves accelerating complexification and rhetorical strategies. It also involves using multiple languages side by side like puzzle pieces in the reconstruction of an otherwise irrecoverable loci of meaning that was aborted by the very semiogenetic event itself- the fracturing of tongues, the Tower of Babel. Using multiple languages in inventive ways allows you to, again, sustain this counter-dance in the face of the subject I am alluding to- which I won’t name explicitly, because I’m keeping this meta. The bizarre prose I venture, filled with references, foreign languages, multiple lexicons and jargons,- this is me performing the necessary counter-movement, a dance needed to keep this subject I am writing about from slipping away. That subject? Ah, you can piece together what it is from my activity in this forum. Why spoil the fun of it?

^ I would also add that blending myth, fiction, real history, metafiction, hyperstitition, etc. is another way to sustain this counter-movement.[/size]

What is that mysterious subject I am alluding to? It is absence. Nullity. I’m alluding to the nothingness which haunts all presence, the Nullity at the center of language, and its self-reversing sign.

Chiasmatic reversed predication: the Sign reverses itself, forcing what Kunze called an “unlimited semiosis”- unrestrained, hyper-mimetic viral replication of the sign across infinite recursive levels of irony. The irony gets so deep that we start talking about summoning chronodemons with eldritch gematria. The self-reversing nullity at the center of the semiotic network,- the preparatory sign par excellence,- is half-represented by the word “the negative”,- the thing supposedly converted into an affirmation through Hegelian dialectic, which tries, as does almost all philosophy, to close off the semiogenetic event- to restrain semiosis, to restrain meaning-production and stabilize the Logos in the flow of history. Yeah: the point of my philosophy is- it isn’t converted: the negative remains negative, and, in order to deal with the unrestrained semiosis, we address the negative, not directly, but through a complex layer of poly-linguistic, rhetorically inflated, “diplocyclonic cryptopoetics”, because otherwise, the Negative is going to keep reversing its own predication, its own sign. Our own philosophy and language must continue in a kind of dance, a constant counter-movement against the shifting contours of this nullifying non-presence, the 'absence of Being" at the URGRUND of our metaphysics. This higher language, in constant motion, is essentially our deploying an ‘intrinsic operational semiotic’.

It is the attempt to convert into presence,- to forget, to push away metaphysical absence; it is this “negation of the negation” infecting all Hegelian thinking, against which I am most ardently poised for attack. In order to preserve the Negative and resist this artificial construction of positive knowledge out of metaphysical presence, (the construction of the “ontos”) this higher language is required, the language I utilize,- a language capable of continuous movement,- one able to match the shifting nebula at the center of the network, the self-reversing Sign. I’m not just using it to flex on people- although that’s part of it, yeah.

Moron…you got me banned ways back when you told me you spoke Greek and you did not.
'Cause your omniscience does not include Greek.
So, you a hypocrite and a delusional drug addicted drunk, coming to ILP, of all places, to show your genius.
My interest in you ended…when you declared yourself god.

Go tell mommy to make you hot tea, take a handful of pills and and take a nap.

It kinda sounds like you got yourself banned given you immediately attacking my personal life with childish, stupid, insults. I don’t know what you’re talking about, I never met you before. Nobody ever asked me to demonstrate my Greek before. Perhaps you have confused me with another person. (I do know Greek; I am better at Latin. In fact, I am proficient in Latin enough to think in the language as if it was my mother tongue. I don’t think something English, translate it into Latin in my head, and then speak it- I think directly in Latin. Some believe Latin was an artificially constructed language, a synthetic one put together deliberately- not evolved. Why? Because of how clearly you can structure things with it. It is a useful tool, just to use to organize your mental processes.) I’m not trying to mesmerize you, like I said. There’s a serious problem at the heart of Western philosophy, which is our approach to the dialectical interplay of absence and presence, and our privileging presence: this ripples out from the densest, most remote academia, to practical real-life matters because it informs the political structure.

I already had the nap. At any rate, I referred to the viral replication of the signs which destabilizes the whole semiotic network when the predication is reversed self-recursively, eg. through the deployment of “intrinsic operational semiotics”, like that I’m deploying right now. (If you feel yourself going insane reading all this: good, that’s sort of the point.) There’s a section in one of my books where I discuss this virality:

(the “Event” in the following text refers to the basic semiogenetic ‘event’, the origin of Language, which I note here

Of that virality:

No moron…you went running to mommy to get me banned when you realized I knew Greek and you lied…you pretentious needy fuck.
When your image was threatened.
Never insulted you once.
Now you follow me around…begging for validation.
I have zero interest in you or your ideas…the fact that you were a member of the van clan, and you use these pathetic methods to pretend you are worth shit…is enough for me.

I am on my own mission.
You are not in it since you’ve already been excluded…genetically.

But carry on.

Ta, Ta,