soul being saved?

[AutSider]

@phyllo

We basically are machines, just bio-organic machines. I thought about that a long time ago. I don’t get why you say “No god” as if there was any proof of such in the first place.

I say ‘no God’ to keep it simple and on track. As soon as someone says ‘soul’ or ‘mind/body duality’,right away people pop out who bring in heaven, hell, reward, punishment, good, evil, afterlife.

You can talk about mind/body duality without any religious connotations.

Subforum: Religion and Spirituality
Thread title: soul being saved?

Yeah, I totally don’t get why people are constantly associating all these religious terms with the mind/body duality discussion

I just realized I’m being a sarcastic ass (even more than usually). Oh well.

[phyllo]

Subforum: Religion and Spirituality

And most of the posters are atheists.

What up with that?

[turtle]

@phyllo

phyllo—I think with were talking MBS—mind/body/spirit…we have thrown out the soul
and when you say body are you including brain…

Yes, body includes brain.

You want to throw out soul because it has a history which you do not like. Correct? But ‘spirit’ captures the same concepts as ‘soul’ so it’s just a change of words.

It should be noted that these words are just ways of talking about a person.

People may think in terms of :

• only body
• body and mind
• body , mind and spirit
• body and soul

What is the purpose of thinking in a particular manner?

the reason soul is not a good word…it may imply something about immortality…I don’t want that …the word spirit is not the same as soul…

[turtle]

@Lev Muishkin

@James S Saint

The soul is the conceptual definition of your being.

To save it means to not lose who you are to something else, less than what you’re worth, to not become more corrupted and distorted.

Rubbish.
Saving souls has always been about going to heaven when you are dead.

you are both wrong…

[phyllo]

the reason soul is not a good word…it may imply something about immortality…I don’t want that …the word spirit is not the same as soul…

Do you know about the Holy Spirit? Lots of religious meaning. Immortal.

[turtle]

@phyllo

the reason soul is not a good word…it may imply something about immortality…I don’t want that …the word spirit is not the same as soul…

Do you know about the Holy Spirit? Lots of religious meaning. Immortal.

phyllo—I thought the holy spirit was a substitute term for holy ghost…that is part of the trinity…I think you are just being picky…without any substance…

[phyllo]

phyllo—I thought the holy spirit was a substitute term for holy ghost…that is part of the trinity…I think you are just being picky…without any substance…

If you are trying to get away from ‘negative’ associations, then changing from ‘soul’ to ‘spirit’ is not moving very far.

Do you have some more specific differences in mind which make ‘spirit’ a superior concept?

[turtle]

@phyllo

phyllo—I thought the holy spirit was a substitute term for holy ghost…that is part of the trinity…I think you are just being picky…without any substance…

If you are trying to get away from ‘negative’ associations, then changing from ‘soul’ to ‘spirit’ is not moving very far.

Do you have some more specific differences in mind which make ‘spirit’ a superior concept?

phyllo—why are you having so much trouble here…soul is not a good word because it implies something that you have… that needs to be saved to go to heaven…I like the word spirit because it does not imply that…why cant you get this…

[phyllo]

phyllo—why are you having so much trouble here…soul is not a good word because it implies something that you have… that needs to be saved to go to heaven…I like the word spirit because it does not imply that…why cant you get this…

If you look in the dictionary, some definition give spirit and soul as being the same thing. Other definitions give them as only slightly different ideas.
Ghosts are also called spirits, so immortality is closely connected with the word.

Maybe I don’t get it because mind/body duality is not a big deal for me. Nor is the idea of having my soul saved.

[Artimas]

@turtle

@phyllo

phyllo—I think with were talking MBS—mind/body/spirit…we have thrown out the soul
and when you say body are you including brain…

Yes, body includes brain.

You want to throw out soul because it has a history which you do not like. Correct? But ‘spirit’ captures the same concepts as ‘soul’ so it’s just a change of words.

It should be noted that these words are just ways of talking about a person.

People may think in terms of :

• only body
• body and mind
• body , mind and spirit
• body and soul

What is the purpose of thinking in a particular manner?

the reason soul is not a good word…it may imply something about immortality…I don’t want that …the word spirit is not the same as soul…

How do you know there is no immortality?

[Artimas]

soul
sōl/Submit
noun
noun: soul; plural noun: souls
1.
the spiritual or immaterial part of a human being or animal, regarded as immortal.
a person’s moral or emotional nature or sense of identity.
“in the depths of her soul, she knew he would betray her”
synonyms: spirit, psyche, (inner) self, inner being, life force, vital force; More
emotional or intellectual energy or intensity, especially as revealed in a work of art or an artistic performance.
“their interpretation lacked soul”
synonyms: inspiration, feeling, emotion, passion, animation, intensity, fervor, ardor, enthusiasm, warmth, energy, vitality, spirit
“their music lacked soul”
2.
the essence or embodiment of a specified quality.
“he was the soul of discretion”
synonyms: embodiment, personification, incarnation, epitome, quintessence, essence; More
an individual person.
“I’ll never tell a soul”
synonyms: person, human being, individual, man, woman, mortal, creature
“not a soul in sight”
a person regarded with affection or pity.
“she’s a nice old soul”
3.
African-American culture or ethnic pride.
short for soul music.

Well it says spirit is a synonym for soul, so… yeah.

[James_S_Saint]

@Artimas

soul
sōl/Submit
noun
noun: soul; plural noun: souls
1.
the spiritual or immaterial part of a human being or animal, regarded as immortal.
a person’s moral or emotional nature or sense of identity.
“in the depths of her soul, she knew he would betray her”
synonyms: spirit, psyche, (inner) self, inner being, life force, vital force; More
emotional or intellectual energy or intensity, especially as revealed in a work of art or an artistic performance.
“their interpretation lacked soul”
synonyms: inspiration, feeling, emotion, passion, animation, intensity, fervor, ardor, enthusiasm, warmth, energy, vitality, spirit
“their music lacked soul”
2.
the essence or embodiment of a specified quality.
“he was the soul of discretion”
synonyms: embodiment, personification, incarnation, epitome, quintessence, essence; More
an individual person.
“I’ll never tell a soul”
synonyms: person, human being, individual, man, woman, mortal, creature
“not a soul in sight”
a person regarded with affection or pity.
“she’s a nice old soul”
3.
African-American culture or ethnic pride.
short for soul music.

Well it says spirit is a synonym for soul, so… yeah.

I have always agreed and seen that scriptures often conflate soul with spirit. But none of those people were perfect. And they conflated things that were strongly related but not truly identical by today’s standards (the only perspective you have). By today’s technical standards, a soul is a very different thing than a spirit in the same way that 4.375 is very different than 4.000. They round out to be the same, but there is a significant difference to those looking very close.

[turtle]

@James S Saint

@Artimas

soul
sōl/Submit
noun
noun: soul; plural noun: souls
1.
the spiritual or immaterial part of a human being or animal, regarded as immortal.
a person’s moral or emotional nature or sense of identity.
“in the depths of her soul, she knew he would betray her”
synonyms: spirit, psyche, (inner) self, inner being, life force, vital force; More
emotional or intellectual energy or intensity, especially as revealed in a work of art or an artistic performance.
“their interpretation lacked soul”
synonyms: inspiration, feeling, emotion, passion, animation, intensity, fervor, ardor, enthusiasm, warmth, energy, vitality, spirit
“their music lacked soul”
2.
the essence or embodiment of a specified quality.
“he was the soul of discretion”
synonyms: embodiment, personification, incarnation, epitome, quintessence, essence; More
an individual person.
“I’ll never tell a soul”
synonyms: person, human being, individual, man, woman, mortal, creature
“not a soul in sight”
a person regarded with affection or pity.
“she’s a nice old soul”
3.
African-American culture or ethnic pride.
short for soul music.

Well it says spirit is a synonym for soul, so… yeah.

I have always agreed and seen that scriptures often conflate soul with spirit. But none of those people were perfect. And they conflated things that were strongly related but not truly identical by today’s standards (the only perspective you have). By today’s technical standards, a soul is a very different thing than a spirit in the same way that 4.375 is very different than 4.000. They round out to be the same, but there is a significant difference to those looking very close.

james is right on…but I need to focus this discussion because we are getting mired down in definitions…
I am starting a new thread called spirit being saved?

[Arcturus_Descending]

turtle,

Then you have to define “spirit” in the sense that YOU mean it.

[Artimas]

spir·it
ˈspirit/Submit
noun
1.
the nonphysical part of a person that is the seat of emotions and character; the soul.
“we seek a harmony between body and spirit”
synonyms: soul, psyche, (inner) self, inner being, inner man/woman, mind, ego, id; pneuma
“harmony between body and spirit”
antonyms: body, flesh
the nonphysical part of a person regarded as a person’s true self and as capable of surviving physical death or separation.
“a year after he left, his spirit is still present”
the nonphysical part of a person manifested as an apparition after their death; a ghost.
synonyms: ghost, presence; informalspook
“a spirit haunts the island”
a supernatural being.
“shrines to nature spirits”
short for Holy Spirit.
noun: Spirit; noun: the Spirit
archaic
a highly refined substance or fluid thought to govern vital phenomena.
2.
those qualities regarded as forming the definitive or typical elements in the character of a person, nation, or group or in the thought and attitudes of a particular period.
“the university is a symbol of the nation’s egalitarian spirit”
synonyms: ethos, prevailing tendency, motivating force, essence, quintessence; More
a person identified with their most prominent mental or moral characteristics or with their role in a group or movement.
“he was a leading spirit in the conference”
a specified emotion or mood, especially one prevailing at a particular time.
“I hope the team will build on this spirit of confidence”
a person’s mood.
“the warm weather lifted everyone’s spirits after the winter”
synonyms: mood, frame of mind, state of mind, emotional state, humor, temper
“she was in good spirits when I left”
the quality of courage, energy, and determination or assertiveness.
“his visitors admired his spirit and good temper”
synonyms: morale, esprit de corps More
the attitude or intentions with which someone undertakes or regards something.
“he confessed in a spirit of self-respect, not defiance”
synonyms: attitude, frame of mind, way of thinking, point of view, outlook, thoughts, ideas
“that’s the spirit”
the real meaning or the intention behind something as opposed to its strict verbal interpretation.
“the rule had been broken in spirit if not in letter”
synonyms: real/true meaning, true intention, essence, substance
“the spirit of the law”
3.
strong distilled liquor such as brandy, whiskey, gin, or rum.
synonyms: strong liquor/drink; More
a volatile liquid, especially a fuel, prepared by distillation.
“aviation spirit”
archaic
a solution of volatile components extracted from something, typically by distillation or by solution in alcohol.
“spirits of turpentine”
verb
verb: spirit; 3rd person present: spirits; past tense: spirited; past participle: spirited; gerund or present participle: spiriting
1.
convey rapidly and secretly.
“stolen cows were spirited away some distance to prevent detection”

I’m just not seeing it. They seem the same to me. Just another way to say it honestly.

[turtle]

@Arcturus Descending

turtle,

Then you have to define “spirit” in the sense that YOU mean it.

exactly…see spirit being saved? thread

[turtle]

@turtle

@Arcturus Descending

turtle,

Then you have to define “spirit” in the sense that YOU mean it.

exactly…see spirit being saved? thread

for those that want to save souls they can stay here…if you are interested in saving human spirits please go to the saving human spirits…thank you

[Artimas]

Essentially the same thing… but ok.

[Artimas]

You’re doing the very thing you’re against.

[turtle]

@Artimas

You’re doing the very thing you’re against.

what do you mean