Number one. I demand the source of where Kant said it is better to tell the truth than save a life when deciding whether or not to lie or tell the truth to a would-be murderer. If Kant was not the first one to say that, who was the first one to attribute it to Kant?
That being said 
This is a game followed by a serious question.
The game is two truths and a lie, superpower style: If you could have any superpower, what would it be? Two of them must be truthful answers; one of them must be a lie/bluff. Hereāre mine:
- The ability to turn on sleepwalking mode to catch a few winks between classes. It gets complicated when people try to interact with you.
- Selective amnesia on purpose.
- Bring Ecmandu back from Tartarus.
The question is: If lying is only possible if you know you did something wrong or youāre consciously trying to protect someone else, explain natural camouflage when found in nature (here defined as ⦠wut ⦠happenstance? lol). Are all instances of camouflage willful? How can you tell the difference? Do you think maybe sometimes when persons lie, we donāt even realize it (especially if we lack insight or self-reflection) and are doing what comes naturally out of triggered camouflage instinct (whether for love or war hah!)ā¦?
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Re: [Super]natural Lies
Offline Ichthus77
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Mon Jan 02, 2023 3:59 pm Post
Faux Happiness
āHappinessā resulting from or maintained by selfishness ~(self<=>other) (disclaimer: not rational altruism) is immoral and faux happiness. Do you think it will not leave one with dissonance and distortion one must work out?
Happiness resulting from or maintained by unselfishness (self<=>other) (not irrational self-nihilation) is moral and genuine happiness that does not leave one with dissonance and distortion one must work out.
The appearance of unselfish behavior is either a sign/fruit of happiness or maintenance/camouflage of faux happiness.
ā¦and THEN you have the āhappinessā of those who deify āselfish powerā over the self<=>love freedom of servant leadership.
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Re: [Super]natural Lies
Offline Meno_
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Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:32 am Post
One could presuppose #2 before treading on the prior one.
Itās a test of basically one could lie to oneās self in either case. How can one narrow both to a simple test of faith?
How can regulate that s test with messages coming from either end, from below and above
Simple. Just like self subservience is so easily transparent as when a heavier weights liquid falls or flies to the bottom, so do ethical questions resolve.
The oldest case was in Solomonās hands to judge, and it is well known that receipt was behind the insincere womanās desire to cut the baby in half . granting equal parts to both contenders. Was Solomonās judgement based on mere analogue. Or did a different justification enter his mind?
Letās take it analogously. How would it profit a woman to get one half of a dead child?
Even if the talk concerns an almost animal desire to protect itās young, even then, how would protecting the young be tautanomous with viewing her young as an objective possession, swing well with the value of living things versus the inert, lifeless part that she need no longer āprotectā?
Even animals abandon their dead family members.
So from this level, if it is the kind of loveless place which could have been the case, and is the beginning steps toward the rung on the ladder of live, ( and such scenario is present even as we speak),the prophetic mind of Salamin is worth noting.
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Re: [Super]natural Lies
Offline Ichthus77
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Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:54 pm Post
Iām not exactly sure where youāre going with this. Hereās where Iām at:
- The non-mom selfishly put her āhappinessā into possessing a child, so she was willing to sacrifice helping itā¦willing to sacrifice the child.
- The real mom unselfishly put her happiness into helping the child, so she was willing to sacrifice possessionā¦willing to sacrifice herself.
They both knew ripping the child in half would not help the child or result in their happiness, but the real mom prioritized helping (unselfish happiness) over possession (selfish faux-happiness).
If conscious AI is like a child, a bad corporation will only help the AI if it can control it. A good corporation will raise it with good parents and set it free.
If conscious AI is like a grown adult, but safety is a concern, how did it learn to be dangerous? Boomerang.
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Re: [Super]natural Lies
Offline Meno_
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Thu Jan 05, 2023 5:18 pm Post
This is a paradox , the example put foreword is a-proāpo because in pre Socratic times, sentience, and the values put on it over and above it, presented little affective/effective difference in terms of evaluating that difference.
So the levels of effective ājudgementā tended to shit away in temporal terms, toward a mechanical view , of objective criterion,
This is present today , many places in the world where the economy of real-politics is the primal force of determining the economy of the āidā as many places can be found where the value of life really is directly related to the cost in allowing such an economy.
Magi back into almost to the limits of pre-history the facts present even more of a stark contrast. So thinking about Christās Live, for instance is way ahead of itās time. Christ was/is a prophet-futurist of the first order, where His Ptophecy was really a mode of presentation, of a prior Certainty. He knew it, but there is no way in the world could He present it, unless done in the way He did it.
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Re: [Super]natural Lies
Offline Ichthus77
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Thu Jan 05, 2023 5:39 pm Post
Yes, except the Law & the Prophets were foreshadowing, and most still canāt see.
Happy is the one who trusts even if they lack sight.
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Re: [Super]natural Lies
Offline Ichthus77
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Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:24 am Post
Canāt see? There is hope. Kantās 3 syntheses canāt be done apart from each other. If one is happening, all are happening at least at a basic or compensatory level, or insight ceases to function - the way blind folksā hearing/echolocation compensates for loss of sight - like how the other leg compensates for the injured leg, so is stronger than it would have been otherwise. If our insight is broken due to trauma or other factors, if we really want to see, if we seek, we will find insight by a longer road, as Solomon sought wisdom.
It could be argued that if you do not have a capacity for dissonance/fear, it CAN be a missing rung on the ladder to overcoming adverse conditions and rising into insight (like unselfish love) ā UNLESS, because reality will not allow you to simultaneously choose all competing neutral pleasures/drives/impulses [like self-recognition survival instinct (higher: truth impulse), other-recognition defense instinct (higher: impulse for good), and reproduction pleasure instinct (higher: impulse for beauty/wholeness)] the determining factor of whether a decision is moral even if it makes you happy (or: even if you feel nothingā¦or: even if you feel some residual dissonance due to self-sacrifice of competing pleasures/drives/impulses) remains ātreat other/them as self/usā.
Could the origin of guilt be the dissonance of saying no to one of your competing pleasures, drives, or impulses when you felt you owed it to yourself to always say yes to them, but reality (logic) forced you to choose or experience the consequences of choosing not to choose?
synonymous:
conscience
sense of right and wrong
pleasure/impulse/desire for the good
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