“the Ãœbermensch is no longer human” - Whitelotus
What the hell is he talking about?
he’s flinging his poop. Don’t worry about it. He’ll probably come in here soon and fling some poop in your direction.
I always thought that was the function of the “untermensch”. Am i on the wrong side of the see-saw again?
Explain.
I’m not really sure myself but if what Whitelotus is saying is true then it makes things very confusing.
Upping.
Upping.
I think he meant that Nietzsche’s idea of the “overman” necessitated transcending traditional human frailties (such as piety, altruism, etc.)
I think it could mean that the ubermensch has to be a cyborg or computer. Not that whitelotus said that.
When Nietzsche wrote “Der Mensch sei ein Anlass für etwas dass nicht mehr Mensch ist” it’s translation is NOT “the Ãœbermensch is no longer human”. “Der Mensch sie an Anlass…” means that man is the occasion, the motive, the ground, the point of departure, the launching pad of a potential in himself which is no-longer as he has historically known himself to be; it is THAT which goes beyond his own definition the “über” in Űbermensch. It is a “Self-surpassing” a phrase often used in translation which doesn’t really encompass the whole meaning. There are words in EVERY language that contain their own “aura”. They cannot be translated with complete efficiency. “Űbermensch” is one of those. “Superman” is a parody, an overdose of the nonsensical, in short, a stupidity! “Overman” sounds idiotic, “Overlord” is even worse and neither term conveys ANYTHING of Nietzsche’s meaning. Actually, you couldn’t pick better words to mutilate it.
I was merely being facetious, sarcastic and noughty like 98% of everyone else in this forum! Nevertheless “untermensch” would mean “Less than Human”; a “barbarian” and therefore dispensable as far as “superior” humanity is concerned. Even the ancient Athenians with all their self-acknowledged superiority were subject to this complex. I won’t say anything about the far east and “their” worldview. It would be POLITICALLY INCORRECT!
…to Gamer, all I can say is “THINK HARDER”!
To put it simply, life should be a means, not an end in itself.
how about we finish reading zarathustra before we get into a tizzy about what the “Ãœbermensch” is??? the idea was abandoned in the later chapters for eternal recourence…
the OVERMAN is a parody of exactly what people do with it… and the tight-rope walker scene is a parody of itself too… if readers ever make it to book four of zarathustra they might see what i’m saying
The idea of “Ãœbermensch” is NOT abandoned by the idea of eternal recurrence. It in fact reinforces it. What’s the point of that idea if man is external to it; if he does NOT exist within it. It is an unending drama; a forever recursive script that even Nietzsche admitted was hideous. It’s an existence which Shakespeare described as “signifying nothing” with never an end to its non-significance. It takes an exceptional being to consider and accept that conclusion - to live with it, knowing the same thoughts and responses will repeat themselves forever.
If I’m wrong, I don’t mind being corrected. But don’t just say so! Tell me why!
Wow. All I’m seeing is contradiction.
Seems like nobody here agrees as to what is meant by that…
So, does that mean it is all up to interpretation?
The overman itself is an attempt for Nietzsche to transcend beyond the human morality to allow the “espirit” to soar to the heights. For Nietzsche the Ubermensch is the antithesis for the “Human all to Human”. When taking into account the Ubermensch you must also take into account that Neitzsche was necessarily talking about the “last man” when he spoke about overcoming(not that others didn’t need to be overcome). And for Nietzsche the “last man” would eventually be the demise and stagnation of the Human population, but Nietzsche also recognized that this is what it means to be a European or a “Human” with values that devalue themselves.
In philosophizing the Ubermensch Nietzsche did not think an evolution would occur, or physical form would change, he was simply pointing out that for the Ubermensch to exist he must first overcome himself. He must overcome his tendencies toward herd instinct, he must overcome all the tendencies he inhereted from the society. But for Nietzsche to do this you not only needed to change these things, but completely overcome them in the process. Such Human contrivances and problems become below you, and thus you transcend beyond the human to the over-human.
The Source wrote:
It seems like contradiction because some people know more than others.
It’s up to interpretation only in so far as one decides to take on metaphysical assumptions. Neitzche meant something precise, and what you percieve is either equal to that or it misinterprets.
Ultimately you need to find out for yourself. Thats the only way to go about it.
i stick by my main point… and wonder why very few can understand that the overman is abandoned in zarathustra… i can only guess it is because they don’t finish the book
Yup! Since there’s NOTHING to stop you from interpreting according to your own level of understanding; whether expert or not, whether correct or not, you create your own “event horizon”. And what adds pandemonium to confusion is that among the best thinkers, a really insightful reader, interpreter or translator can move an idea even beyond the orbit of meaning which it’s writer presupposed it to have! But this is done more often in error than insight.
Philosophy is not mathematics or science even though it would utilize the same discipline in creating its WORKS OF ART. It’s important to recall what Philosophy IS in the first place before you start reading it’s individual chapters. Everything it expounds derives from the art of interpretion, FIRST by the philosopher THEN by YOUR interpretation of his work. It’s really in the nature of a duel man to man. Science is not.
← and as far as nietzsche goes on this point… wouldn’t it be great to flip to “Truth and Lie in a Non-Moral Sense” and “Homer’s Contest” in The Portable Nietzsche???
but most are still stuck on the first half of the first chapter of Zarathustra…
If the Ãœbermensch is no longer human, then what is he?
Okay, I’ll play your game.
What’s an Ãœbermensch?
And don’t answer with some punk-ass “Ãœbermensch” or “not human” response.
Give it to me straight.