Imagine demanding ‘evidence’ that it’s not a good idea to house men in women’s prisons. Why the hell does he think there are WOMEN’S prisons?
And yet the same person is saying that it’s dangerous for men to be housed in men’s prisons.
Make it make sense.
MistressOphelia:
Imagine demanding ‘evidence’ that it’s not a good idea to house men in women’s prisons. Why the hell does he think there are WOMEN’S prisons?
And yet the same person is saying that it’s dangerous for men to be housed in men’s prisons.
Make it make sense.
K: and we arrive at the lying portion of the show… I said, and I can quote
if need be, I ask, how many men are housed in women’s prisons? I never
said anything about being a good idea or not, I simply asked for numbers
on how many men are in women’s prisons…and I also said that men who
identify as women in prison get raped in prison, a lot… so, which of the lessor
of two evils are we going to go with? This will go a whole lot faster if you
could actually quote some numbers on how many men are in women’s prisons?
and those random pictures you post without any sort of context, well.
that means nothing unless you can give us some context as to the,
who, what, when, how, where and why… otherwise, they are just
random pictures… which I could post if I had any idea as to how to
post random pictures here from the internet… if you are still at a loss,
my suggestion is just lie some more about what I wrote and continue
to post random pictures that make no sense without context
Kropotkin
Apparently, according to the vile misogynist above, women are responsible for men’s safety in men’s prisons.
If men feel unsafe cosplaying as ‘women’ in men’s prisons, then there’s a REALLY easy solution to that. They are also a lot better at defending themselves against other men then women are against men. Women don’t have the luxury of taking off a $2 shop wig and miraculously turning into a man.
The misogynist above thinks that if only a small percentage of female prisoners are raped or intimidated by men in women’s prisons then that’s a small price to pay for keeping men safer from men.
Got that, Peter Kropotkin.
That isn’t true. Modern civilization works by the application of general laws applied to specific situations. Tolerance is encoded in things like the Bill of Rights in the US Constitution, or the European Convention on Human Rights, which may have popular support at the time they are written, but are intentionally created to restrain the majority, especially in cases where the majority would not extend the tolerance those laws require.
You believe this because you believe you can instantly differentiate men and women with perfect precision, and you’re wrong about that.
It wasn’t, it’s politically useful.
A woman enters the women’s locker room and sees two people:
Which of them does she think shouldn’t be there?
This is the problem with calling it “decorum”, or thinking that how you dress or behave doesn’t matter, and that sex-segregation is always about keeping penises and vaginas separate. Many women who want a space reserved for women want it reserved for people who look and act the way women are expected to look and act, and would prefer to share a locker room with Vivian Wilson rather than Brian Michael Smith. And Vivian and Brian would agree.
What it really comes down to is that people who live this way make you uncomfortable, no matter which bathroom they use, and your actual goal is to prevent people from living this way at all.
I just don’t buy the litany of horrors. “Affirmative action”? When do you think affirmative action became a thing, politically? Do you just mean, “Another fucking minority I have to treat like they’re human”? (Or should that be “… treat like they’re part of the “protected class” of ‘humans’”?)
This list is offered as an elaboration on the claim that “99.9% of society has to literally f-ck itself”? “Literally”? Literally fuck itself? After accusing me of acting like we’re “living inside North Korea” when I explained how criminalizing bathroom use burdens gender non-conformance, you pad your list of how you have to “literally fuck [your]self” with things like not accusing coworkers of having the wrong genitals (“compelled speech”). nOrTh kOrEa!
Literal criminal laws (literal literal, not your creechy catastrophizing “literal”) burden humans who have to choose between breaking them or being harassed by the police every time they use the bathroom.
Not pearl-clutching ‘decorum’, literal guys with guns, empowered by the state to put you in a cage if you can’t prove your fucking genital shape at birth.
Women couldn’t barge into a women’s dressing room either! Barging, by anyone, was always prohibited!
The new laws criminalize mere presence: a post-op transwoman alone in a single-toilet women’s restroom. No barging, no destroying the gays, just presence.
Here is a study from 2006 that found about ~21% of women in women’s prison experienced sexual assault by another prisoner within the previous 6 months, and ~7% experienced sexual assault by prison staff. It see a stretch to suggest that transwomen make up enough of the women’s prison population to account for that, especially in 2006 (which I take to be before the “handful of years” you mention trans having existed).
Sexual assault in prison (women’s and men’s) is a problem, our prison system is brutal and in desperate need of reform. But it seems unlikely that transwomen are a significant cause of the problem.
What exactly are you arguing ‘about’ and ‘for’ anyway? That men should be allowed in women’s prisons because women get assaulted in them anyway? That women’s spaces and sports shouldn’t exist? All you are doing is regurgitating transactivist tropes. It’s pitiful. I hope being a lawyer isn’t your only source of income. You just can’t BEAR to side with something that you view as not complying with your partisan American politics.
Women don’t have to ‘look like’ anything. Nice stereotype peddling in your ‘gotcha’ photos btw. What’s your point? That women shouldn’t have their own toilets because you think some men ‘look like women’ and some women ‘look like men’?
That man in the photo looks similar to the boy in Death in Venice. Males can be ‘pretty’ too you know. That man looks obviously male in many photos where he’s off guard. He’s a man, with man hands and feet and an adam’s apple.You are displaying your misogyny. Who are you to tell women they shouldn’t fight to keep their separate spaces? Are you are man who wants to use them?
I get the two ‘gotchas’ mixed up because they essentially look like the same person. One is Elon Musk’s obnoxious, entitled son. Forget the name of the other one, but he has an enormous nose.
‘Interesting’ that practically every American ‘celebrity’ these days has at least one ‘trans’ child. Goodness. What an astonishing coincidence. Who would have thought?
I suppose they should let bears in women’s prisons then. Might as well, since women get assaulted in there anyway, and they are brutal places.
You kind of expect that there would sometimes be assaults by women on other female inmates in WOMEN’S prisons. What you should also expect is that there would be ZERO assaults by male inmates on female inmates in WOMEN’S prisons.
Jesus wept, this is exhausting.
I vote that adult male chimps should be housed in male prisons and put in cells with human inmates. I mean, male prisons are violent places anyway. What difference would it make?
This is just plain playing stupid. You are arguing over the internet, the largest knowledge base that has existed since the birth of our species, probably life as a whole on this planet.
Not bringing proper numbers for your own argument is not exactly good etiquette in a debate, but firing back to that with “well i decided its bs so i dont need to confirm it” thats just next level.
Since both parties seem to refuse to budge about bringing up any numbers, if i may:
Using the UK as a basis: Between 2016 and 2019 the maximum number of male prisoners within female prisons was 129
Within this timeframe there has been a recorded 97 cases of sexual assault committed by such individuals. This does not include altercations not sexual in their nature.
@Carleas →
a.) Again: What the woman believes has no effect on either of these people’s identity
b.) Naturally she’d think that the one looking like man doesnt belong there
The problem is that “look and act” is not an acceptable standard.
A fair example for this issue would be the religious exemptions debacle we touched upon.
There are some religious exemptions given to people of certain beliefs (at least in some countries). However, for the individual to have access to such exceptions, they have to prove that they are an avid practitioner of their faith.
If there’d be AT LEAST a similar standard for this argument, i’d consider it.
However the way you phrased it, you have said nothing more than “anyone including rapists and sex offenders are free to use women’s spaces as long as they act and look sufficiently female”.
Im pretty sure its obvious what the issue with this is.
No. And its a no because if that’d be the case then we’d be not discussing specific spaces, but their existence in general. What this comes down to is an expectation of privacy and security and sex specific spaces being sex specific.
Second: I really do not appreciate the turn table arguments of comfort and tolerance. I have very negative experiences with it.
There are two exclusive spaces for A and B, and it is in fact YOU who is uncomfortable with their current state of situation and wishes to “transition” from one to the other.
Where does the idea come from that its the 9 billion other people who are uncomfortable or intolerant towards you because they do not just fall flat in front of your every whim and expectation?
We are just playing with words here. There have been laws against your “presence” as a man in a women’s changing room even before the trans nonsense.
Juggling around the words changes nothing about the original point.
I hope you aren’t speaking for me here. The one who doesn’t belong in women’s is the man.
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What does this comment mean? What are you implying?
What are you implying?
Nothing, I’m asking you a direct unambiguous question
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No wonder Americans are thought of as the village idiots of the planet. They cultivate that image like a delicate hothouse orchid.
The question was a hypothetical about a random woman in the first place:
You were never the subject of the question/answer
Without wanting to speak for her… is the answer not obvious?
There is clearly a sociological and cultural vector for this phenomena.
And furthermore: Considering the age brackets this is happening in:
Since the age groups above 30 practically have not moved at all (even tho this would be the time for all those poor oppressed trans people to come forward) and basically 80% of the “affected” are between ages 12-18…
Yeah well… make a wild guess where all these “trans people” are coming from and why every Hollywood “human presenting animal” has suddenly a trans child.
If you cannot just express yourself clearly and call everyone an idiot when they ask you what you mean, you don’t belong here. I encourage you to rethink your attitude about this.
So please, tell me, what were you implying?
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No it’s not obvious. Are the pictures you posted after supposed to make it obvious? What do those pictures have to do with celebrities?
They are examples. Your question is being answered further down:
Then its established via data further further down: