Question… To question all people as we do ourselves… One’s faith cannot become strong on guidance, instruction, or testemony… The church does not build the strong soul, it builds the complient soul which in turn destroys the individual… People sense that something is wrong, yet they don’t question their leaders… Why not? Did God REALLY grant the authority to these people? Or did us humans CHOOSE THEM? In what do people put their faith? The bible? Their religion? Their pastor? Their family? Why should ANYONE have the right mold another’s soul in the likeness of their ideals? Is this what Yeshua taught? What was his REAL message? How has that message changed with every interpretation of his words? Could one’s faith survive without the religion it so heavily relies upon? Could one live being the only christian, or the only buddhist, or the only muslim? Most importantly, is God closer to order or closer to chaos? Order has always resulted in oppression, true chaos follows the way of the universe, which God sent into motion and the eventuality of it is beautiful… God created entropy to run a specific course and this structural fluidity within all things should apply to spiritual matters as well, no? So, why does religion speak so much of an absolutism that cannot be described or identified… It can be agreed upon by most that there are moral absolutes that exist but they are scarce, and many would debate their validity in favor of a relativist position because no standard can be definately identified… The absolutes described in religion go past morality and into belief, and one has to question the variety of ways that are proposed… In situations wherin many sides oppose there is rarely a singular victor, and would a God that created such a vast and constantly changing universe really only appoint ONE faith as true? If christians believe their way is the only way, why are jews excluded and not muslims? It is a very socio-political mentality that promotes a sort of bias exclusion among cultures and religions… Either all faiths and ways are possiblities, or none of them are… Personally, I am one who favors the way of no way… How hard must it be to communicate with God, why is the religion necessary? Again, I ask, is this what Yeshua spoke of? It is time to discover God… And that discovery cannot occur staying in the same place… The only way to strengthen our spirits is to challenge it, as with our minds or bodies… And, how can one challenge without questioning? I see this as being a useful tool for individual growth… What is it you’ve observed?
Lies and hope. That’s about it. That’s most of what I see in any “faith”.
don’t forget Ignorance Dan
Bad religion is lying. Good religion is metaphoric, hiding the real truth within. A truth that one has to discover for one’s self.
truth is a Goal in which once you succeed at it,there will be nothing left,no reason,no purpose of existence,no hope,emptiness.
i know because i am.
I disagree. I think that the truth is experienced only in fragments of time in which we experience eternity. Life can simply be described as the absence of death, its the will to stay attatched to these meager shells.
In Thomas’ gospel Christ says something like: “The kingdom of heaven is on earth. Yet we do not see it.”
Eternity is here and now. There is a theory that states that we are in a perpetual state of God asking us to join him. Throughout our entire lives our answer is “no” because we not only don’t understand the truth, but we are unready to learn this truth. The end is finally giving in and saying “yes” to God. Yes to becoming one with the universe. This brings us into being one with the truth.
Fragments in Time limits your false eterneity,there is no such thing is infinity,everything folds back on itself,it’s a fact of life.
Death doesn’t AWOL it i merely the part of life in which you are placed in a coffin and put into a grave,your final resting place.
it’s a clue from the writer’s of the bible,your heaven is fiction,that is why you do not see it.
you know every theory has it’s flaws,and in this case,“God”.
we are nothing like “Him” nor is “he” anything compared to us.
acceptance of a false deity is how you accept a simple lie.
saying yes or no to yourself has nothing to do with “God”.
Perhaps I should clarify etnernity…
Welcome Noib,
you certainly have a lot of questions …
You are asking from outside the church, that is very clear. Perhaps from inside you wouldn’t have to assume quite so much. I agree that we are born to question, “Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you†but how would you know how faith becomes strong? Do you assume that guidance, instruction or testimony is something bad?
We are indeed individuals, but we also depend upon community to exist. From the beginning we have to be nurtured and “brought up†learning gradually to discover our surroundings as our awareness grows. Just as our senses slowly reveal the sources of the sounds, the smells, the tastes, what we touch and the pictures that our brain is progressively sorting, we learn to distinguish between the multitude of stimuli and understand how they interact.
In the same way, the guidance, instruction or testimony we receive from our fellow humans has to be sorted and the objective separated from the subjective, the meaningful from the hackneyed, the symbolic from the literal and so on… We have to learn to read body language and gesticulations, facial expressions and the tone of a voice. We gain experience with our fellow human beings and begin to understand that there is the special and the inferior, the genuine and the phony, but it all serves to build up what becomes our intuition.
When you have come far enough, you can even draw a message from platitudes, you can read between the lines and hear the words in the unspoken. You begin to hear and see the truth even when it is hidden, you feel the sentiment of someone who is concealing their true feelings, and in the light of all this you slowly become aware of who you are. You can then try to conceal it – although you know intuitively that people can read you like you can read others - or you can live openly and accept your “imperfectionâ€. This may be compliance, but it is compliance to the truth about you.
What is wrong is very often what we do to our intuition. We know intuitively things that we try to suppress, or experience such things being suppressed. The task is to live the truth ourselves – which isn’t as easy as young people always assume.
These are questions that you have to answer yourself. They are the threshold to a new life and only when you have answered them do you know whether you are inside or outside. What you really need is someone who you can read and who is genuine. They are often elderly people, but people are generally defensive about their souls, so don’t think you can just read anyone. However, if you can find someone who is genuine, you will find some answers.
If you avoid the answers, or don’t find the right people, you could end up remaining on the outside after all, that is why Jesus says, “Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you!â€
Shalom
That’s a very narrow reading. Besides that Thomas is not in the Bible. Its one of the Gnostic gospels.
You assume I have not been a part of the church, nor experienced those things which you speak… In fact, my journey began from WITHIN the church, but it has expanded outward… I have experienced that religion can only share with me so much… I ask you, why does faith require religion or other people for that matter? Is God not enough to have faith? Is God not enough guidance and instruction? Why are human intermediaries necessary?
Yes, that is true within the physical world… But how about the spiritual? It is common knowledge that factors such as culture, family, and social association do much to mold one’s individual perspective of the world- It is but a constant circle of conditioned thought… how is the church any different in regards to spirituality? Do they not strive to mold people in the form of their own beliefs?
Yes, but those are all indeterminate entities of interaction… An institution of religion is very set and established in a particular “way”… So, how does this establish the necessity of a church?
Why do you persist to assume my own development? Rather presumptious is it not? Once more, how does this establish the necessity of a church or religion?
Could you contend that this gets awfully close to being rhetoric?
The world we liv in is not static… Our souls are not static… So how will participation in a static unchanging set of ideals benefit one’s soul? Is connection with God that improbable to people?
Good defintion,wrong answer though.
How can you be so sure about that?
because i am determined to believe that faith is ignorance of fact,and you ignore facts.
And of course the distinction between the two is evident to anyone of religious nature;ie the religion that they belong to contains ‘the truth’ while ‘the other guys’ religion is lying.
Therein lies the problem.
It’s all ultimately the same.
That’s not “truth”, that’s just life experience. All of our special moments in life are just moments of satisfaction. How does someone mastake personal satisfaction for “the truth”?
Typical, suicidal Xian in denile.
Your “shell” is calling itself a shell, as it dreams about an immortal soul and a god to save itself.
Yeah, the silly basterds are too sane and realistic to see “the truth” yet – but with enough brain-washing and bias, it’s possible to believe in anything.
So, what is “infinity” IYO, and where is your proof/math of this being obtainable by thee for even 1 second of your limited life time?
If I wanted bullshit I’d be in a farm field with a scoop and some rubber boots, but don’t call this “truth”, please.
The “truth” is unbiased, sober, a-let-down, reasonable, realistic, factual, existent, possible, existent before and without an observer.
Donnie, please reconsider that statement.
If the “truth” is fact, then we simply grow a little bit more every day with each new slice of truth that we gain.
But if we find “the truth” – then feel emptiness, no hope, no purpose, – this only happens to us if we had high expectations before actually knowing “the truth”. Unlike many, I believe that the meaning of life is to live; the meaning of existence is to exist. It’s simple, and should be versatile aswel. Our satisfaction of our own needs should be our greatest meaning, and all else – is most often the unneeded and wasteful wanting.
@Dr.Satan:
Did you draw that avatar? Lo, it’s funny!
=)
But really, the word “spiritual” is very relative to life force, and “spiritual” feelings are mostly found within mentally, emotionally and physically healthy/strengthening actions/practices.
Religion can go **** itself.
The way to spiritual growth:
- Leave your spirit in the fridge.
- Go away for a week or two on holiday.
- Turn the mains electricity off as you walk out the door.
- Come back - open the fridge door, hold your nose.
- Bingo - one spirit covered in growth.
You see, no hocus-pocus esoteriscism required, just two weeks and little absent-mindedness.
You say faith is ignorance of fact yet all you seem to cling to is your faith in facts. You fight with atheism and science just as hard as a conservative Christian Bible-thumper. You’re a blind follower of math and science even if you don’t really understand that knowledge.
In short I find you are one of the most faithful people posting here.
Dan,
Religion is metaphor. It represents that which we cannot explain or comprehend. While we don’t need gods as metaphors for why it rains anymore there is still so much that people can’t understand. Although you seem to be one of those people who look at the world and think ‘that’s it.’ I don’t think I’ll ever see eye to eye with that and no matter how much you bash what I say we probably won’t gain any ground.
Why so angry Dan? This is a religion thread. I don’t understand posting here if all you want to do is tear down what people say.
Did you actually read what was written?
^^^I think he was responding to your “reasoning”…
Anyways, can anything else be a metaphor for what we cannot explain or comprehend? Are you sure this definition is really applicable? Do science and mathematics not offer ways to develop more tangible answers of things that we do not understand? Could it be, perhaps, that there is something MORE that draws people to the need to be spiritual or religious?
Removing all religions from the planet, and raising everyone on math and science, would not someone still believe in the spiritual and esoteric?
But even more…
Why do YOU believe what you believe?