What are cults and how can you know you are in one?

Philosophy Forums Religion and Spirituality
121

Where is the little irony here exactly?

It obviously cannot be in relation to me at all because:

  1. I certainly have absolutely no followers at all.
  2. I certainly do not seek absolutely anyone to follow me.
  3. I am certainly no leader.
  4. I certainly do not follow absolutely anyone.
  5. I certainly do not wish to follow absolutely anyone.
  6. I certainly am not wishing to lead absolutely anyone.
  7. I therefore have no cult at all.

That it is you who follows others, and you who wants others to follow you, which is a sign of a cult, is quite ironic. Well, to me anyway.

Why are you continually trying to look at and see me as some “cult leader” for?

You really do need to become far more open “greenfuse”. In fact, you appear to be even more closed now than you were when you communicated as “iwannaplato”.

LOL I am not even looking for agreement, or even if you disagree. In fact, I prefer you just became open, and remained open, instead.

It appears from your traumatic childhood experiences you believe people are out to “get you”, and you can’t move past this trauma.

The fact that what I wrote is just an irrefutable fact does not mean anyone has to agree, nor disagree with it. That an irrefutable fact cannot be refuted stands on its own. You are free to agree or disagree with absolutely anything. Which, by the way, is another irrefutable fact that I frequently present here.

LOL So, presenting claims that no one can falsify is, to “greenfuse”, a ‘manipulative system’.

If only “greenfuse” recognised the truth and irony in this claim.

So,

  1. Only cult leaders present unfalsifiable, or irrefutable, claims, which, in essence, means only cult leaders present the actual Truth of things. The absurdity of, speaks for itself.
  2. When are you going to finally decide to actually end communication with me? I have forgotten how many times you have made the claim that I am “back on ignore”.
  3. If you even believe that if you continue to communicate with me, I will present other so-called “cult leader-like communication” to you, then you continually communicating with me, especially after you claim that “I am back on ignore”, then what does this show and say about you exactly?

As I asked you earlier, “Why do you refer to me as a “he” here?

You really do follow your own presumptions, without questioning them at all. Which, as even you pointed out, is a sign of when one is in a cult.

Anyway,

Once more, just because you ‘see’ a mistake, this does not mean an actual mistake has been made.

Or, are you still living under the delusion that what you see and/or believe is true is the one and only actual Truth of things?

Are you still following the cult, that what one presumes and/or believes is true must be the actual only Truth?

Again, I will suggest that you become more open and not be closed “greenfuse”.

Do you have great reluctance to admit your own mistakes that are not trivial?

Are you willing to now admit your non-trivial mistakes here?

If you are not yet willing, then why not? Are you in some sort of cult? Or, is it only others who can end up in a cult? Do you have the capacity to end up in, or to now be in, a cult without yet realising?

Or, are you above and beyond this?

122

When you say, “I am always right”, who exactly is this ‘I’ that you are referring to?

Has the cult or matrix that you live within led you to believe that you are always right?

123

I don’t.

Misalignments, for example, between what they say and do. Did I say wholeheartedly?

Same old Age, assuming. But let’s say for a moment you are right about what I meant there….if you think that’s self-aggrandizement, my goodness it pales against your claims about being infallible about what is True and Real. But you were wrong about what I meant there. Still, toilet calling the bathtub white. Beam in your own eye, and all that.

Misinterpreting me again. Also notice. If someone else were to claim to know what is True and Real, even in just realm of knowledge then I am being manipulative. But you claim to know what is True and Real period. So, if someone were to make claims like yours you would see them as manipulative. I have not made those claims. But you clearly have.

Thank you, at least here, you are honest, but about yourself.

124

That could all very well be true. Nevertheless your communication and claims share qualities with cult leaders.

I’m not, just noting similarities with cult leaders. Note: no quotation marks about those words.

You don’t understand what that means. It’s not that it is true and so cannot be falsified. It is circular reasoning and a fallacy.

You anew1 are a space alien. If you agree, well, then you are a space alien. If you don’t agree, well that’s what they do, deny, so you are a space alien.

Are you a space alien, anew1? - or can you now see what ridiculous stuff you think is logical.

And the irony continues: this is also precisely the kinds of manipulation cult leaders use. If you agree with whatever the cult leader says, good. If you disagree or are skeptical, this is a sign of your resistance or evil influences or whatever.

Yes, I understand that you ‘allow’ questioning. I am focused on the manipulation in the kind of circular reasoning, Kafkatrap you are using here. It is a shut down mechanism. If you answer yes or no you are showing the cult leader is right.

Further, you are positing yourself as someone who is not in a cult.

This is another thing that cult leaders do, positioning themselves as the only one who has woken up.

Are you a cult leader? I doubt it, but I don’t know.

Really poor reading and simply making things up that I did not say. So, you made up an absurdity. Congratulations.

I don’t know.

You appear to think there is only one thing it shows about me. LOL. What’s that?

One very easy one is that you confused me with Atla, twice. If you’ve admitted that, somewhere, let me know, and we can see if you can admit other mistakes.

125

No, that would be you.

126

I have admitted a non-trivial mistake, the putting you on ignore and not ignoring you. But so far you seem unable to do such things. Just like Age could not manage this. I did in relation to Age. And Age, that is you, could not admit non-trivial mistakes there either.

I am a fallible human. What are you, anew1?

You claim to know the True and Real and can always distinguish this from personal truths, etc. Do you consider yourself both human and fallible?

127

So, you say and write that if you can’t do something with someone that you are following, then you would stop following them. But, now, you claim that you don’t follow others.

What we have here is another prime example of your contradictions. You do follow others, but you also do not follow others.

If what one does, does not align with what they say, then that does not necessitate that what they say is wrong nor incorrect.

I don’t know. Did you say wholeheartedly?

But it is not an assumption. I have already shown and proved where exactly your own self-aggrandisement exists.

That you do not want to look at this fact, and want to continue to be blind here, is not surprising at all.

You used the words, “ill-fit with reality”, which reveals that you actually believe you know reality, itself. Which, again, shows and proves your self-aggrandisement.

That you, once again, tried your hardest to deflect, but which, in reality, you can’t help because your biases do not allow you to see the Truth here, by trying to claim that your word “misalignments” was why I was referring to. Again, I will suggest if you just stopped being closed and blind, and become a far more open human being, then this will help you tremendously in life.

LOL You claim that it is me who is assuming here.

That you assumed I was talking about your “misalignments” word was in relation to your self-aggrandisement is clearly another mistake and wrong conclusion of yours.

And, then your attempt to portray that I am “lesser” than you, only goes to show your personal character here “iwannaplato”.

I see you have not changed at all here “iwannaplato”. You still like to make claims, based on absolutely nothing at all but your own assumptions and beliefs.

I will now challenge you to show and prove where I have supposedly misinterpreted you.

You are absolutely free to make as many claims you like about me, but if you never provide proof, your words are worth nothing at all.

Of course, I claim to not just know what is True and Real but also what the formula and process is to finding out what is actually True and Real. Which, by the way, absolutely no one could refute.

Now, that you have not yet possessed this knowledge and ability is fine and okay with me. But, none of this detracts away from you believing, and subtely claiming, that you know reality and know what human nature is.

However, I will challenge you on what is reality, exactly, and what is human nature, exactly?

Up to now, you have not shown me any sign at all that you know what reality and human nature is exactly. But, this will not stop me from asking you and challenging you to show and reveal otherwise. So, will you inform us readers here of fits with reality exactly, and what is human nature exactly?

You still have absolutely no idea nor clue at all what the “manipulative” word means to me. So, what you are trying to imply here is not working at all.

The reason that you have not made those claims, but I have, is obvious.

You could not honestly make those claims. Whereas I can, and did.

You’re welcome.

By the way, your sarcasm does not go unnoticed.

128

That was your hypothetical situation. So, I put myself in that hypothetical situation, yes.

Can you be wrong about this? Are you infallible?

129

You attribute something to me I did not say and suddenly I have the onus to PROVE it is incorrect. More cult leader behavior.

130

When anew1 was Age he was more direct in some of his cult leader-like behavior:

‘I’ am ‘It’. Which is why ‘you’ human beings have taken so, so long to ‘catch up’, ‘see’, ‘notice’, ‘recognize’, and ‘know’ thy ‘Self’, the ‘I’, in ‘the question’, ‘Who am ‘I’?’

‘I’ am ‘It’, the Universe, and, Mind, Its-Self.

While ‘you’ are ‘you’, human beings, and people.

Now, ‘I’ can call ‘you’ a ‘you’, because ‘you’, individually, are ‘an other’, and, all of ‘you’, collectively, are ‘others’. Which is what the word, ‘you’, means and/or is referring to, exactly. ‘you’ are, literally, the illusory separated, or the conceptually different ‘other/s’.

Whereas, ‘I’ am the one and only One, always unified and united One. While, ‘I’ can can ‘you’, a you, ‘you’ can not call ‘Me’ a you, because there is, literally, no other than ‘I’ the one and only Universe, and, Mind.

And, just like ‘you’ human beings are made up of a visible human body, and, an invisible person, within, so to am ‘I’ made up of the visible universal body, and, the invisible Mind, within.

As always if absolutely any one would like to see and obtain the actual other irrefutable Truths, here, which all back up and support the claim, here, then allow ‘us’ to just have a discussion.

He is the one, the One, the Universe, the Mind. He is not a human, he is the entire universe. One who cannot be fooled by his own personal perspective, who knows the Real and the True.

131

LOL Who cares?

To you, it appears that if someone’s style shares qualities of another, then that someone MUST BE “the other”.

Which is absolute absurdism, from my perspective.

That you have been making conclusions, based upon nothing at all other than your own presumptions, goes to show and prove exactly what I have been revealing, saying, and claiming in these forums.

Do you have a reason to note similarities with cult leaders?

Why do you not use quotation marks about those words?

What do you presume my use of quotation marks means?

LOL. So, now,

  1. What made you presume that I don’t understand what that means?
  2. What do you presume I understand that to mean?
  3. You, still, have not made one attempt to even try to understand what I understand. You, as usual, just went straight to assuming, and to basing your conclusion on your assumption, alone.
  4. What even is ‘that’?

LOL Just because you believe that ‘it’ is circular reasoning does not mean that it necessarily is.

Until you seek out and obtain understanding and clarification, you are just presuming ‘it’ is circular reasoning.

Also, and by the way, it is true, and so cannot be falsified.

Which is really going to get to you.

Now you have provided an example of circular reasoning.

So, now what proof do you have that space aliens deny?

Again, because you have not even tried to obtain and gain understanding from me, you will continue to misconstrue and not see.

Do not, again, bypass my challenging questions. What proof do you have that space aliens deny?

That you still can’t see where and when you have been making your mistakes and making your illogical conclusions is no concern to me. In fact, your misunderstandings are providing great examples, for me.

Thank you for providing more details about what your cult leaders actually do.

If anyone was to question me, enough, then they will find out that it has not been me who has been circular reasoning here.

That you are also focusing on manipulation, which you are “looking for and seeing” in others, is what allowed you to miss the actual subtle manipulation that you were doing. But, because you have been indoctrinated and manipulated, also very subtely, has not yet allowed you to see and recognise this fact.

Why do you keep thinking that I have been seeking for anyone to agree, or to disagree.

I just put forward a claim that cannot be refuted nor falsified.

I am not sure why you have such an issue with this. The issue you have might be a result of a very traumatic childhood. We will have to wait to see.

What you are even referring to, I have never even sought an answer for.

Really? What led you to conclude this?

Was it your own personal presuming again? Or, do you have something else this time?

If you have something else, then some readers here would love to see it.

If you have not yet become aware, then so be it. You are certainly not alone.

So, I specifically write:

And, you still ask the question, “Are you a cult leader?”

And, you still do not know.

It is like you want me to be a cult leader.

Which would fit in exactly with what you have said and proclaimed before.

So, if you now want to claim that that was not what you said, and meant, then what did you actually mean when you said and wrote the words, “other cult leader-like communication will arise”.

You WERE talking about there being no way to falsify the claim. Which in other words is - The Truth.

So, if you did not say the words, “other” and “communication”, or those words were not in regards to your other words, “There’s no way to falsify the claim”?

What were you actually saying and meaning?

Let us see if you answer this challenging and clarifying question.

But, it shows more than one thing about you.

Once again, you try to deflect and detract.

I ask you a specific question, then you go off on something else entirely.

If you just keep focusing only on what mistakes you can prove, then so be it. But, it would help you if you stop being so closed and narrowed and started focusing on the actual words I write.
Now, where and when was the second time I confused you will “atla”?

Imagine if your main concern, in a philosophy, was when one confused and mistook one person for someone else.

LOL You want me to admit “the mistakes”, which you believe exist, but which are based upon your beliefs and assumptions alone. Until they are proven to be mistakes, what you want another to admit to, is just further proof of delusional thinking and/or cognitive deterioration.

Also, you want me to admit mistakes, but you do not do this yourself. So, the hypocrisy continues.

LOL Now, you believe that that is what I do.

So, once again, do you have any actual proof of this? Or, are you, once more, just basing your already resolved conclusion, and thus your truth, on your own presumptions and beliefs alone?

If your conclusion is not based upon your own presumptions and beliefs alone, then provide what you are basing your conclusion on.

Be forewarned that the very thing that you want to present, will not suffice.

132

Nope. My guess is that you are not a cult leader. Wrong conclusion.

133

Mind-reading pre-cognitive ability claim. More cult leader behavior.

134

Again, you are absolutely free to believe whatever you like.

Also, admitting one mistake, when I specifically mentioned mistakes, goes to again show your consistent deflections and detraction, but honestly some of them you do not even recognise and notice you do.

Just like you do not admit all of your mistakes here “greenfuse” you do not admit all of your mistakes as “iwannaplato”.

I am certainly not what you say you are.

135

The first time was when you called me Atla. The second time was when you said I thought you were a she. And by the way. I already pointed this all out and even showed you evidence in the other forum. If you are the Mind, why is it so easy for you to forget things?

136

Once again not admitting he made a non-trivial mistake. But that fits with his sense that he is not human nor fallible.

Once more, the word, ‘you’, means or refers to ‘an other’.

‘I’ am ‘It’. Which is why ‘you’ human beings have taken so, so long to ‘catch up’, ‘see’, ‘notice’, ‘recognize’, and ‘know’ thy ‘Self’, the ‘I’, in ‘the question’, ‘Who am ‘I’?’

‘I’ am ‘It’, the Universe, and, Mind, Its-Self.

While ‘you’ are ‘you’, human beings, and people.

Now, ‘I’ can call ‘you’ a ‘you’, because ‘you’, individually, are ‘an other’, and, all of ‘you’, collectively, are ‘others’. Which is what the word, ‘you’, means and/or is referring to, exactly. ‘you’ are, literally, the illusory separated, or the conceptually different ‘other/s’.

Whereas, ‘I’ am the one and only One, always unified and united One. While, ‘I’ can can ‘you’, a you, ‘you’ can not call ‘Me’ a you, because there is, literally, no other than ‘I’ the one and only Universe, and, Mind.

And, just like ‘you’ human beings are made up of a visible human body, and, an invisible person, within, so to am ‘I’ made up of the visible universal body, and, the invisible Mind, within.

As always if absolutely any one would like to see and obtain the actual other irrefutable Truths, here, which all back up and support the claim, here, then allow ‘us’ to just have a discussion.

See, ‘I’, unlike these posters, here, can actually back up and support ‘all of my claims’ with irrefutable Facts, and proofs.

137

LOL. I’ve mentioned mistakes, plural also, and you have admitted to zero.

One meta-comment Anew: you confuse proving something to you with demonstrating the truth, as if you could possibly admit a fundamental mistake or misunderstanding of what is true. I am not trying to prove anything to you, because you can’t admit things.

I am teasing out who you are, through your responses and old posts. Others can then decide how they want to interact. Since you think everything you say is True and Real, this should not cause you any problems or mislead anyone, from your perspective.

Here you are someone essentially claiming to be God, the Mind, infallible, not a human being.

People might as well know that up front when they deal with you.

138

What are you on about? Again, you try to deflect, so that you do not have to look at and admit your contradictions and inconsistencies.

Your persistent detracting does not work on me.

I asked, “How can you know you are in a cult?” (You know just like the question in the topic title of this thread).

You replied, “If I find I cannot question someone who I am following,” You also said that you would then think you are in a cult**,** and that you would then stop following them.

I never made up any hypothetical situation at all. I just asked you, “How can you know you are in a cult?”

This thread is about,

  1. What is a cult.
  2. How can you know you are in a cult.

You used the words, “I am following” and, “I would stop following them”.

But, now you claim that you don’t follow anyone.

You are absolutely free to believe you can have things both ways here. But you logically can not.

I am not wrong about this.

I have already answered this.

139

You made a claim. Which I addressed.

So, either back it up, or continue on with your deflective character.

Either way, I certainly do not care.

By the way, please continue to point out MY ‘cult leader behavior’. This will come in very handy for later on.

140

LOL. I’ve mentioned mistakes, plural also, and you have admitted to zero.

One meta-comment Anew: you confuse proving something to you with demonstrating the truth, as if you could possibly admit a fundamental mistake or misunderstanding of what is true. I am not trying to prove anything to you, because you can’t admit things.

I am teasing out who you are, through your responses and old posts. Others can then decide how they want to interact. Since you think everything you say is True and Real, this should not cause you any problems or mislead anyone, from your perspective.

Here you are someone essentially claiming to be God, the Mind, infallible, not a human being.

People might as well know that up front when they deal with you.

Well, that’s not exactly true. You can’t see how you appear to others. You may think you are simply asking reasonable questions and drawing reasonable conclusions, but actually your attitudes and sensitivity do come through. I do understand that you don’t notice this and certainly will never admit it. And that’s fine.

But in the longer term, yes, I consider it extremely unlikely you’ll notice or affirm the things I point out. That’s fine. You’re not my audience.

You have confirmed what you believe about yourself. That is all that matters.