What is the purpose of relationship?

I believe that relationships fail because there is a misconception that they’re supposed to be romantic. We need the romantic love to create a bond I’m thinking so that when the going gets tough we have a foundation to encourage us. This is where people fail, the moment it gets tough they bail or worse…Are we not supposed to observe our own behaviour through the behaviour of the other? Are we not supposed to grow together?..surely the hardships are our stepping stones…but we want the other to change to fit in with our unhealthy attitudes, those very same attitudes that we think are healthy…

Any thoughts?

A

I think it was the famous psychologist Aaron Beck that said, the best relationships are based on sympathy.

To me that means that you’re involved with a fellow monkey. They poop a lot , get confused, are prone to pimples, and can be a lot of fun to play with, but they certainly aren‘t perfect.

Sympathy means that you are feeling and trying to understand the state that the other is going through, but that can be romantic, if you think about it.

So why do relationships fail Ad?

A

I think motivation is important here. Why do we form the relationship to begin with? I had a close friend once who found herself falling for a man and I asked her about him. “Well, he treats me like a queen!” Well yes, I said, but what kind of a man is he? “What kind? The kind that brings me flowers every time he sees me!” Anyway, it took three or four more questions to get any kind of handle on what the guy’s character was like and it occurred to me she really only had a vague idea. They’re not together anymore.

Not to single her out. We’re all guilty of this, especially when we’re younger I think. But when the infatuation and the romance goes away, and it always seems to, you’re left with the person’s character. If you connect with it, you’ve got something. If you don’t, you’re in trouble. And here’s where people bail.

And so it might not be a case of not sticking it out through the hard times. It might be a case of not wanting to experience the hard times with this particular person you’re with.

If on the other hand, a real connection is there, a deep connection, then it seems to me that the motivation becomes more about saving the relationship than in saving whatever it is you wish to save for your own self. The relationship becomes the thing, the creative entity that has been built brick by brick by both parties together. This is what’s worth hanging onto.

A good deal of relationships fail because of the method of romantic action. In a new relationship a variety of phenethylamine and indolethylamine analogs are released into the brain. Then, we get screwed from two angles, 1) as the relationship continues, we grow accustomed to the other person and produce fewer happy-chemicals because of them and 2) we develop a tolerance to these chemicals.

There is a secondary mechanism, which is still poorly understood, that occurs after the transition from known mood-altering small-molecules. Long-term relationships are about making that secondary mechanism work. I’m gonna go with Alder on this one and say that sympathy is a good vehicle for this.

Tseng Tzu said, “The way of the master is loyalty and forgiveness, that is all”. In our loyalty we strive to perform our best for the other, and in our forgiveness, we allow the other to fall short of perfection. Many relationships I have seen are very self-involved and forget this message.

Not to sound stupidly obvious, but it’s because of a lack of sympathy on someone’s part.

Usually the relationship fails because some expectation wasn’t met and the expector did not understand, or care to understand, why the person was unable to meet it.

Now, it seems like a tall order for the average person to be sympathetic to all types of people, so it’s important to attempt to find the type of person that you are most understanding of and vice versa.

One of the influences on the failure of relationships is because of boredom and inconvenience. This rests upon our preference for excitement and convenience and the high availability of those things. We, in the modern post-industrial world, live in a situation where we can easily get satisfaction for these cravings. We expect these things and get put-out when we don’t get them.

The simplest benefits from a relationship are present most frequently at the early stages it. The thrill, the excitement wears off fairly quickly. People are too impatient to gain the more complex and subtle benefits of a long-term relationship.

Economics are also an influence. There is no longer the same kind of economic pressure for anyone to stay together. Social pressures have also diminished.

When love beckons to you, follow him,
Though his ways are hard and steep.
And when his wings enfold you yield to him,
Though the sword hidden among his pinions may wound you.
And when he speaks to you believe in him,
Though his voice may shatter your dreams as the north wind lays waste the garden.

For even as love crowns you so shall he crucify you. Even as he is for your growth so is he for your pruning.
Even as he ascends to your height and caresses your tenderest branches that quiver in the sun,
So shall he descend to your roots and shake them in their clinging to the earth.

Like sheaves of corn he gathers you unto himself.
He threshes you to make you naked.
He sifts you to free you from your husks.
He grinds you to whiteness.
He kneads you until you are pliant;
And then he assigns you to his sacred fire, that you may become sacred bread for God’s sacred feast.

All these things shall love do unto you that you may know the secrets of your heart, and in that knowledge become a fragment of Life’s heart.

But if in your fear you would seek only love’s peace and love’s pleasure,
Then it is better for you that you cover your nakedness and pass out of love’s threshing-floor,
Into the seasonless world where you shall laugh, but not all of your laughter, and weep, but not all of your tears.
Love gives naught but itself and takes naught but from itself.
Love possesses not nor would it be possessed;
For love is sufficient unto love.

When you love you should not say, “God is in my heart,” but rather, “I am in the heart of God.”
And think not you can direct the course of love, for love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.

Love has no other desire but to fulfill itself.
But if you love and must needs have desires, let these be your desires:
To melt and be like a running brook that sings its melody to the night.
To know the pain of too much tenderness.
To be wounded by your own understanding of love;
And to bleed willingly and joyfully.
To wake at dawn with a winged heart and give thanks for another day of loving;
To rest at the noon hour and meditate love’s ecstasy;
To return home at eventide with gratitude;
And then to sleep with a prayer for the beloved in your heart and a song of praise upon your lips.

  • Love, Kahlil Gibran

I don’t agree with anyone here, based upon personal experience.

There are three entirely separate modes related to age, experience and learning, which make a single, early life, mate choice relationship improbable to continue indefinitely.

Stage one: Primal lust of youth - trying to find and express sexuality without the benefit of experience or proper learned relationship behavior.

State two: Procreation stage. Where individuals look to find a proper mate for procreation based upon resource gathering abilities, intelligence factors, and protection needs.

Stage three: Companionship stage. Procreation and the power of lustful investigation subside, and individuals look for another with whom to share life and it’s experiences more in the friendship mode than the sexual mode.

Likely it is that no one should be particularly bonded to the idea of a single individual throughout the entire course of life. Some will change exponentially on the individual level throughout life, some just stagnate continually.

In either instance, change, rate of change, absence of change on the individual level creates differences which cannot be overcome by bonds of monogamy. Sometimes all one can do is to be honest that it’s time to move on, and find someone more appropriate to the needs of the current stage of life. It’s all developmental, and everyone is painfully different in this aspect.

But Mas, can’t people develop together? Grow through life’s various stages still holding hands, even if the directions of growth don’t seem (on the surface) to be mutual? Standing beside your loved one, helping her through her stuff while she helps you through yours…this seems to me to be something than can bring real depth to a relationship. I still contend that it’s the relationship that should be built and nurtured. Otherwise it’s the selfish desires of each party that get the attention and, yes, the changes in life as we grow would then necessarily prove fatal to the relationship. The difference is where the focus is placed. Sacrifices made to the relationship, not necessarily the other but the relationship, this is what makes things last it seems to me.

Isn’t the relatioship just an illusion though? The other person is the relationship, it’s not some tangible, conscious thing.

I sort of lean towards Mas, we only get 1 life… we might as well be a little selfish. Why stay in a relationship just for the sake of keeping it going?

I see it very much as a living, breathing, conscious thing. A thing created by the two parties, something that connects the parts to the whole. There is something there, something between two loved ones, something they create, tap into, and build on. It’s not a chemical reaction in one person’s brain and a chemical reaction in the other person’s brain, separate and apart from one another. It can’t be.

If this is an illusion, then God is an illusion.

It’s not for the sake of keeping it going, it’s for the sake of deepening our self knowledge, it’s for understanding our joy as well as our pain. It’s for experiencing our own entire spectrum. That really only happens in a relationship that has made it through. A relationship that can go the distance is a spiritual relationship, it’s a conscious relationship that as Jerry says, is its own entity.

A

What I am saying, may seem, on the surface to be “selfish”. I don’t personally believe that it is though.

Development can be fostered through mutual attention only if both parties are participating equally in the same direction. This, rarely, if ever, happens … speaking from a “realistic” standpoint.

Wisened old monkey man is ever perceptive. The relationship itself is a perceived construct. It is merely a thought and emotion bridge for the inherent gap created by individual “selves” attempting to meet mutual goals.

This is exactly why I see varying stages of life relationships. To each one are different goals.

Again, I contend to disagree. What invariably takes place in your scenario is that one is made to suffer for the benefit of the “relationship”. This is a matter of ego at this point. “I know we are different, and no longer want the same things, and can’t find peace between us, but it’s about us sticking together.” That’s ego.

Someone will be made to suffer and remorse and regret. Most typically, it ends that both suffer, in truth. The one who wishes to move on, is trapped by the failure of the relationship, the other is lost because the belief in the relationship working to benefit both is proven to be a failure.

One trap, two lives lost.

There is no set spectrum though. What if you make it the same depth in different caves with two people? The pool is deep… but it has many different areas.

Fair enough Mastriani, I am not here to argue about the reality of most relationships. I’m an idealist Mastriani, yet in order for my vision to be achieved, it takes work. That is what I believe is the original value of a vow. The vow assists us in achieving the (spiritual) work. We all fall out of love with our lovers, there are many processes that we embark on, yet, we also fall back in love with them again. Love, has no boundaries, it just doesn’t always present itself the way we would like it to. But if we look at ourselves deeply, it is likely that we haven’t fallen out of love with the other at all but that we have fallen out of love with ourselves because as our relationship deepens, the more we begin to observe ourselves in the other and that is what we cannot deal with.

A

OG,

I’m not going to pretend that I have any answers here. I most certainly understand when it is time to part, often the love simply isn’t strong enough to keep two people together or as with my own story, the love is strong but the path is stronger. It seems that my committment to my own personal journey always wins in the end. Yet, I believe that is why it is important that fundamental differences are a recipe for disaster.

A

liquidangel,

The start of your thread ends with this:

My thoughts differ from yours. If in the future, you do not wish to debate a premise, I suggest positing, not inquiring.

Unless, for some reason, I am misunderstanding the intent of “Any thoughts?”

Well thank you Sir for you thoughts, now that I have them, I would very much like to add some. Ok with you?

A