a new church

I wasn’t talking about the people, rather the leaders needing a scapegoat for the eyes of the people so that the people were less inclined to rise up against them.

What if they bet that they don’t get caught by the police? That bet would not work in the case of divine justice.

I don’t think the majority are the “bad” guys. I think the majority have trapped minds in fallacies. This does not make the majority bad, it makes the majority delusional. Some to the point of where they completely reject evidence in the name of “GOD ALMIGHTY!”.

Some minds influenced/engineered when children, some who were influenced by fear/misinformation or ignorance, some who willingly adopted it who are most likely uninformed as well. Did anyone watch the Neil DeGrasse video I tried showing?

No, they can just go to church and have their “sins” washed away. They will surely be on the run from police then, or living in paranoia from getting ‘caught’, not “divine justice”.

A more sophisticated view of consequences takes into account stealing’s affect on others, relationships, and society. I’d like to hear how or in what context dispensing with trust is ultimately okay.

As I said.

The consequences of getting caught stealing, going to prison, and perhaps being killed there. Are those profitable consequences as well?

It’s not like a bath. Your sins are not washed away unless you truly repent your actions.

Jesus did not say to the adulterous woman : “Go and do what you have been doing”. He said : “Go and sin no more”.

Yes, but even if they DO stop and have their “sins” washed away, it does not rewind the clock to make them face consequence of their past negative action/influence. With prison, there is no “Go steal no more” It’s “You did the crime, you pay the time.”

A large payoff now can easily cancel out these warm and fuzzy consequences.

Yep, that’s a problem all on it’s own. I don’t agree with money/material, governing. That’s corruption of justice.

also there is no divine justice…if you don’t like it don’t join

So you favor coercion over conversion?

I think that you are confusing morality and the legal system. Morality is self-regulation, the legal system is external regulation by government agencies.

That means moral acts are right or wrong whether or not anyone else knows about it. Illegal acts are only wrong if you get caught. :-"

I favor not doing them in the first place. A knowledgeable wise man wouldn’t.

Most of the time they don’t convert anyways, they simply say they do. I don’t understand why we’re even debating something of which has no evidence of existence anyways. Sure if there was a way for conversion outside of “divine law” then have at it.

Whatever that means. :open_mouth:

Money, materiel, government are facts of life.

So stealing is not immoral? Stealing from a family member or friend would not feel ‘bad’ about their decision, regardless of being caught? Only the unnatural, only the unnatural of which hate.

No they aren’t LMFAO. We created them and made them facts of “life”, I don’t see material/money governing life outside of our jungle-ception. We created our own jungle of comfortableness, inside of the real jungle of which is being negatively influenced outside of our jungle of comfort.

What we create, can surely be taken away.

If the human race was composed entirely of knowledgeable wise men(and women) then there would be no problems. :smiley:

No back to reality…

And it often does. Is there no wisdom but divine word that can explain the detriment of short-term thinking?