Double Standards Around Abortion [split]

The United States is the most capitalist system and economy on planet yet it is on the verge of total collapse. Explain to me the discrepancy since you believe capitalism is superior over communism.

In my opinion space travel is a long way off, see how long it took them to save two stranded astronauts on a space station hovering a few miles over earth’s orbit? If that’s considered difficult then colonizing the moon or Mars is way off in the distance.

Also, I believe total automation and artificial intelligence is a huge mistake where one only needs to take a look at the individuals currently controlling all of that to know what kind of oppressive direction they want to take those things to. So yes, I am an A.I. skeptic.

If given the opportunity, transhumanism and technocracy have the potential to be the most oppressive systems ever designed by human beings.

If we’re going with Star Trek Klingons they had an honor system like feudal Japan or Scandinavian Vikings. Know your SciFi.

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If some barbarian space-faring race blew up 10,000 healthy villages is that moral or immoral, is it that good or is that evil?

An emotional appeal to reason.
We slaughter billions of lives, daily, to maintain our human populations on this planet.
All value-judgements are in reference to an objective.
Only life has objectives - intent.

What does life value the most?
Its own survival and propagation - propagation being an extension of survival.
What is good is what benefits survival. The determining objective is survival.
But men can place something above survival. That’s another topic.

Now let us proceed to morals. Good/Bad.
Some species, including our own, has adopted a cooperative reproductive and survival strategy.
Survival is still the objective, only now it is dependent on a group.
But a group requires the sublimation or repression of individualism…in order to facilitate an effective cooperative unity.
So what are morals?
A set of naturally selected behaviors that facilitate harmonious cooperation.
Good is what maintains group stability and harmony; what is evil is what disturbs it.

Man, then, encodes these behaviors as Divine Rules…or a Golden Rule.
as moral systems…and then makes amendments to facilitate the emergence of more complex social systems, requiring even more individual self-repression.

Which group’s health takes priority? Can’t say because its subjective?

No, it is objective…the environment determines what traits are advantageous and which ones are disadvantageous.
Subjectivity is how a living organism tries to understand what is objectively true.
Not all subjective perspectives are equal.

What if a group is optimized to have very low health, like some pests that bathe in filth and live short?

Yes…and we can also imagine a group that practices pedophilia, and considers it healthy and moral…
What determines if this is so?

Nature…environment.
Our morals evolved to reflect what nature has determined to be advantageous.
A group practicing transsexualism or or homosexuality or pedophilia would not survive for long, would it?

What about something more obvious, what if some galactic space vermin goes around hoarding all the resources, causing poverty and decay on every planet they visit, while everyone around them rots. Are they good or evil?

Again…what is the objective of determining a value-judgment.
From their perspective, what they do is good, but not from yours.

Who is right?
Both…and neither.
The environment will determine whose stately is more advantageous.

if the environment is open ended, then the outcome will be different form an closed environment.
In a contain ed environment creating animosities may backfire.

so, good/bad has to do with effectiveness and efficiency, relative to an objective.
The objective’s quality is determined by the environment.

If my objective is equality, then the goodness of my intentions will not determine their success, because my objective might be naive and idealistic…and not aligned, in harmony, with natural order.

When most people die their soul leaves their body and moves upwards into space.

Ha!
An Abrahamic…

Gods…as the ancients defined them, were anthropomorphic representations of natural forces.

All value judgements, like good/bad, are relative to an objective.
Different objectives create conflicts in defining these concepts.
But not all objectives are created equal.
What determines the attainability of an objective?
Nature, or the cosmos…reality…call it what you will.
Existence.
Subjectivity is not equally valid…it is so in relation to an objective reality.
Existence is independent form all subjective interpretations, appreciation, of it.

we gradually awaken to our existence, and then try to make sense of it.
And that’s what philosophy is.
Making sense of it…objectively.

“Pure communist states atrophy, like North Korea”

I just can’t believe what I see.

I gave you a link to An Introduction To Communism; What Communism Is And What Communism Is Absolutely Irrefutably Irreproachably And Indubitably Not like twenty years ago and you still haven’t read it?

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Theory is always perfect.
even Nazism is perfect, in theory.

How do we determine if our theories, our ideals, our objectives are realizable, rational, true?
Application.

Application, actions, is where reality and ideology come face to face.
Reality always wins.


Your theory about free-will, begins with the objective of denying yourself agency…to preserve your innocence - victim status.

Communism attracts such psychologies.
‘Workers of the world unite,’ should be ‘victims of the world’s injustices, avenge yourselves!!’

Communism is the secularization of Abrahamism and Abrahamism is a nihilistic, spirituality, seducing the world’s victims.
Nature’s victims. All those who feel unjustly wronged by nature’s brutal indifference.

No system has even been practiced as it is written in theory…because humans are imperfect beings.
No communism, no capitalism, no democracy is ever practiced as it is written in theory.

Communism, in particular, goes against human nature, and so its practice is problematic.
No man can endure, for long, the repression of his animalistic impulses…not even you…especially not you.
Men need to own things…to control things…to have things.
Humans need freedom.
The problem is selfishness…the problem is choice…free-will.
This is why you deny it…it’s part of your authoritarian, totalitarian, ideology.
An Abrahamic knock-off.

“Theory is always perfect.
even Nazism is perfect, in theory”

Mathematical theories can be perfect but not scientific, economic or policial theory because these are interpretations that have to adapt to unforseen circumstances, changes in material conditions, etc. A Nazi could easily be presented with a situation he didn’t foresee happening and be asked, “What do you do now if you want to be (remain) a Nazi?” He doesn’t know because his Nazi theory is not engaging a world that remains as it was when his Nazism said to him “this is the world, and this is what Nazis do in it.” Much has changed and the theory has to evolve to account for new circumstances. Btw, the point i just made is entirely Marxian. I’ve said before that Marx swallows anyone and everyone involved in political theorizing. Like ALL OF THEM.

“Communism, in particular, goes against human nature”

That’s one of those things you see guys without degrees saying in coffee shops when a conversation about communism comes up. There’s a few other adorable clichés too. The “The State owns your toothbrush!” is another favorite of mine.

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That’s one of those things you see guys without degrees saying in coffee shops when a conversation about communism comes up. There’s a few other adorable clichés too. The “The State owns your toothbrush!” is another favorite of mine.

And yet it is true.
Explaining why communism never succeeded in producing its utopian state…and why it can never succeed.
no matter how many excuses are used, and who is blamed of not ‘understanding the theory’ or failing to "properly apply it’ it remains a theory that can never succeed without contradicting itself, as it has in China.
Nazism failed because the entire world rallied against it.
It was socialism…of the nationalistic kind.

Communism fails because men cannot behave like bees or ants…
They are selfish…egotistical…conniving…they need freedom…the thing you reject.
Meaning, they need options.

The fundamental thing that has to happen for Marxism to BE is the governing structure/format of the society and its economy has to go from vertical to horizontal (i leave you to research what that means and entails).

The closest thing to this ever realized was the brief period Lenin had authority over the soviets. Once Stalin took power, the development and improvement of the horizontal style government ceased, and the socialist state remained in the marxist-leninist phase (if ironically) where a centralized party holds vertical control over the soviets.

Ergo, if you are talkin’ ‘bout something that happened on erf after lenin died and calling it socialism or communism, you ain’t talkin’ 'bout Marxism simpliciter.

It’s neva happened. Neva. And half the time n*ggaz weren’t even tryna make it happen (like Mao and Shtalin).

But the greater gaff is to call these states you think are Marxist “communist” when communism is a phase when government has completely dissolved… something that couldn’t be happening less in states like korea or china.

That’s the suffering I’m talking about. You don’t have to see this at every forum you go to. Its enough to make you want to jump off the thirtieth floor back balcony of a highrise Russian apartment wearing a sleeveless Megadeth shirt.

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Note to studiers: you’re gonna find conflicting definitions of horizontal and vertical. You’ll see horizontal defined as separated powers, branches of government like our three… but then in socialism these branches could be defined as soviet counsels interacting to make decisions that then go vertically upward to be considered by another ruling counsel. It can be confusing.

The horizontal i mean is a linear spread of decision making power made immediately available to everyone on a single plane, so to speak. When quantum computers can take the decisions made by everyone on the planet about every political and economic “what to do next” question and generate an answer at a fast enough pace, you’ll have a genuine democracy for the first time. That’s as horizontal as it can get. The moment you start separating, vertically, a hierarchy of counsels you start getting bureaucratic corruption and special interests incentives and all that shit.

Didn’t say the quantum voting stuff is possible, only that that’s the only way to get democracy. Zee Russians kinda tried it once. Created a computer than made economic decisions based on data it was given.

But then i don’t want a Felicia’s or a Justin’s opinion on what should be done about inflation or the allocation of resources to improve arid environments for living to matter, though. Hell, I wouldn’t want my opinion to matter because i know shitall about inflation and allocating environment modifying resources.

Plato’s grinning right now what with his whole “see? i told you not everyone can captain a ship or know what is best for men”.

Maybe he’s the biggest threat to democracy then because he’s totally right.

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Vertical horizontal…centralized or communal.

As long as alternative systems exist, communism is doomed to fail…or forced to contradict tis own principles…as they did in China.
It can only survive if it is global.

it cannot compete with other systems.
I told this to an anarchist, you know…anarchy fails because it has to exist in ideal circumstances. If an authoritarian system exists, it cannot survive.

Socialism works because it’s a mix.

Perhaps the philosopher is the guardian of the state, an elite force that is not itself subject to the terms it places upon men but must nonetheless protect men from each through placing such terms upon him. His task is to do the impossible; move the masses toward a stronger collective existence without letting that collective existence rob him of his elitism. The keepers of the state; do as i say and not as i do.

My god, what would Max say to this. I wouldn’t even want to see it it would be so violent.

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I agree that a society’s “Rights” ought to be Earned, fought-for, worked-for, not “Automatic” as they are in Western Christian ideals.

What do you suppose led to Western Civilization’s turn toward this “Automatic Right” type of “Classical Liberalism”? Was it Protestantism specifically?

I’m shedding a tear… you’ve come so far, padawan. What do you believe “Republicanism” means?

A State protected by Aristocracy (“Philosopher Kings”).

From what I know, Timocracy was so successful that it gathered people to Athens where they demanded political rights…and Democracy was born.

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So what do we do now? Buy an island in the South Pacific and start our own civilization on it?

Yeah, i think that’s totally possible. Thank goodness we haven’t just been wasting years of our time on forums fantasizing about rebuilding Gondor, and what we want to do is actually possible in the real world and not just the fantasies of a few Men Remaining Men Together.

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Globalists aren’t going to allow any new societies to setup shop undetected and unmolested… Humanity’s going to have to hitch a ride off planet to really implement competitive societies at this point.

AI Infrared heat-seeking Drones are going to locate and terminate any straggling woodsman trying to “live off grid” in Alaska too. The future isn’t looking good in terms of ducking or dodging the surveillance states.

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Traditionalism is returning.
I don’t expect Timocracy to return.
All systems and ideologies evolve.

But we can hope for something comparable, like reestablishing military service for all males, and, perhaps, some kind of service for females…as a rite of passage, into citizenship..

"AI Infrared heat-seeking Drones are going to locate and terminate any straggling woodsman trying to “live off grid”

You convert the sonar of fishfinders into arial radar systems and place them strategically throughout your camp. When they detect incoming drones, you are alerted. You then navigate through your underground tunnel network and post yourself in the most strategically placed drone bunker relative to the angle of approach of the enemy fascist drone equipped with your scoped hunting rifle or crossbow.

I’ve done it a hundred times. I’ve got whole boxes of drone parts. FBI, CIA, Sheriff Department, local police, Army, … i even got one that belonged to some kid and his dad. They were out there after Christmas, and the kid was flying his new drone around, and i shot the goddamn thing out of the sky. Didn’t realize it until i saw that it was a Space Force X-3 toy drone. Felt really bad about it.

This is exactly what the Abrahamics warned us about. That atheism would lead to a moral decay of society, amorality, people declaring the good and evil isn’t absolute, etc. And here we are. Richard Dawkins assured us that atheism wouldn’t lead us to that, yet we are here.

It seems obvious and clear that Abrahamism was necessary for the social stability of the human society. It doesn’t see that humans haven’t yet growed up yet or became mature enough in order to graduate out of abrahamism

as for meat my example is what if the race of barbarians just does it for sport and it makes them “healthy”, are they good or evil?

i would argue that hunting is not evil but destroying and entire acre full of animals is.

it is also that some things are more obvious, say there was some creature that was the same as the Flood from Halo, they were unhappy and purposefully were trying to spread the misery to the rest of the galaxy, so that the rest of the galaxy would become as miserable as them, I would argue that is undoubtedly evil as it increases the net suffering of the galaxy. Something more morally ambiguous would be some empire trying to spread happiness to all the galaxy, but by force and violence for the planets that resist

because there are some situations where good and evil is cut and dry and absolute it proves that good and evil is absolute, there are some situations that you can cherry pick and are morally ambiguous, but it just proves those situations are neither fully good nor evil, not that “good and evil” in of itself is not absolute

OMEGAlol.

Any opinion or belief in the supernatural doesn’t automatically mean “Abrahamic”… you say everyone and everything is an “Abrahamic”. There are other religions on the planet besides Abrahamism…

my belief is from researching NDEs, witness testimonies, etc. and that’s how I’ve formed my opinions and conclusions. It also seems fitting how in videogames the most natural death animation seems to be the camera floating up out of the body. It could also explain gravity, or buoyancy but that is extremly off-topic and I haven’t formed a solid theory on that yet.