Genocide in Gaza? Part II

Right. Judaism is a religion. Jewish Zionism is a subset of Judaism where it overlaps with nationalism. The Torah is Zionism’s origin myth. Every nationalism has one. Zionism’s is powerful. It’s shared by many Evangelical Christians.

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What does it mean that American Jews rank Israel low on their priority list?

A new poll show eight other issues ranked higher than Israel

A child waves an Israeli flag during a rally outside of the Israeli embassy on Oct. 8, 2023 in Washington, DC. Photo by Getty Images

Lauren Markoe

By Lauren MarkoeSeptember 9, 2024

Even as Israel is at war, the Jewish state remains a second-tier issue for most American Jews.

A poll of Jewish Amercians released Monday shows that 9% name Israel as one of the two most important issues to them.

Among the Orthodox, who represent about a tenth of the Jewish population in the U.S., the number is much higher: 31%. That compares to 8% of Reform, 16% of Conservative and 3% of unaffiliated Jews who put Israel in their topmost slots.

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What ranks?

Democracy and abortion: 44% of respondents named democracy as one of their two most important issues, and 28% named abortion.

Israel’s relatively low position on the list — behind not only democracy and abortion, but also the economy, climate change, national security, antisemitism, immigration and healthcare — aligns with past polls of American Jewry. Some might expect that this year, given the ongoing war with Hamas, and attacks on Israel from Iran, Hezbollah and other group’s hostile to the Jewish state, Israel might have risen as a priority.

Halie Soifer, CEO of the Jewish Democratic Council of America, which sponsored the poll, said Israel’s ranking doesn’t mean Jewish voters don’t care about it. Another poll question showed that 75% of respondents said they feel an emotional connection to Israel.

Support for Israel is a “threshold voting issue” for Jews, said Soifer. “Democratic candidates, including Kamala Harris, far exceed that threshold level of support. Jewish voters are therefore prioritizing other key issues at the ballot box.”

Democracy and abortion, she added, were also the top two issues for Jewish voters in a 2022 survey.

The poll showed that among the three-quarters of respondents whodescribed themselves as attached to Israel, 43% called themselves very attached. That compares to 14% who felt not too attached and 11% who felt not at all attached.

A full 100% of Orthodox Jews said they were attached.

Desire for a ceasefire; dislike of Netanyahu

The poll also showed overwhelming support for a ceasefire deal to end the war in Gaza, with 87% of respondents in favor. Less than 9% of non-Orthodox but most Orthodox Jews — 59% — opposed a deal either somewhat or strongly. The stark differences between Orthodox and non-Orthodox American Jews in the survey reflect a broad and growing divide reflected in earlier surveys.

The poll also showed widespread dislike for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu: 63% viewed him unfavorably. But even more — 76% —took a negative view of former President Donald Trump, who is running against Harris. By a wide margin, respondents said they would vote for her over Trump: 68% to 25%.

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Jim Gerstein, who conducted the poll, said Netanyahu’s standing with American Jews began to fall in 2015 when he addressed a Republican-led Congress to attack the Iran deal negotiated by President Barack Obama, who was very popular among Jewish voters.

“When Netanyahu went on to embrace Trump,” Gerstein said, “his support among American Jews crashed and has never recovered even during a war when Jews in the U.S. feel very connected to Israel,”

Sam Markstein, spokesperson for the Republican Jewish Coalition, said the poll is flawed. “The only poll that matters is Election Day, Nov. 5,” he said, and the voters that will determine the outcome are in swing states.

“And so these national numbers — while good for headlines — don’t actually tell the story of who’s winning the election,” he continued, “because a Jewish voter from Chicago, a Jewish voter from the Upper East Side or from Beverly Hills, does not impact the election in nearly the same way as a Jewish American living in Atlanta or Detroit or Phoenix or Las Vegas.”

The web-based poll, conducted between August 27 and September 1, has a margin of error of plus or minus 3.5 percentage points.

Why do you think that is?

Wasn’t Western Christianity Greco-Roman, entwined with its earlier Pagan roots? …when/why did that change?

Because the proto-orthodox church adopted the Hebrew Bible as her own including it’s origin myth which they interpret literally. According to Biblical prophesy, the nation of Israel must exist before Christ can return. That prophesy was fulfilled in 1948. They expect Christ will return to the temple in Jerusalem which doesn’t presently exist. Therefore, the Mosque in Jerusalem must be destroyed and the temple rebuilt. When Christ returns the battle of Armageddon will ensue which of course Christ will win and then set up God’s kingdom on earth. Some of the specifics and the order of events varies among various sects. But, the important thing in terms of your question is that Evangelical eschatology is tied up with the destiny of the literal nation of Israel.

Due to mixed ancestry, funding, or just history? …like Hinduism spawning Buddhism, due to later admixture from the West.

It’s a complex historical phenomenon. The Jesus movement was originally a Jewish sect. Most Jews living in Palestine rejected Jesus and his followers in the first century. But, proto-orthodox Christian leaders subsequently decided to base the new religion on the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) and the text the produced i.e. the New Testament ratifies that decision as I described above. The spawning of Christianity from Judaism does parallel the spawning of Buddhism from Hinduism in some ways. Certainly both movements started by a charismatic founders. However, Buddhism doesn’t emphasize prophesies of a immanent violent end of the world.

Keep chasing them all the way back to Iran(sofaraway).

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/netanyahu-considering-plan-to-force-all-palestinian-civilians-out-of-northern-gaza-to-besiege-hamas/ar-AA1r05Uy?ocid=BingNewsVerp

Continuing the discussion from Genocide in Gaza?:

Continuing the discussion from Genocide in Gaza?:

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Neither Hamas nor Hezbollah are Iranians. That’s like saying South Koreans should go back to the US because the US backs South Korea.

Can someone explain to me how causing hundreds of phones and pagers to explode in a single moment throughout a society, with no regard for where they happen to be or who else might be nearby when they go off, is anything other than literal terrorism and mass murder of the innocent?

What the Israel’s are doing is well within the bounds of the rules of ancient Jewish mortal combat with the unchosen races, so they aren’t violating any moral principles of their own.

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All Jews are not Zionists and all Zionists are not Jews.

True, you can deliberately bomb international food aid workers just because they are going to feel your enemy. You can bomb hospitals and claim there were “terrorists” in there. Then claim oh no it wasn’t you, it was actually them bombing themselves. Yes you can lie too. Lying is good when it serves your own ends. You can even bomb civilian cities killing tens of thousands of innocent people including women and children just minding their own business and going about their lives, then force the survivors to flee to another city where you told them to go… then later go and bomb that other city too. You can use innocent civilians for target practice, like you claim the Nazis did to you. You can teach your children to hate the ethnicity and religion of the others, you can teach your children to stomp on and destroy food aid that was going to be send into the decimated areas so people don’t starve to death. You can set off cell phone and pager bombs randomly throughout their society so that innocent random people are blown to pieces including children. You can call the killing of over 50,000 people “justice” for the death of 1,000 of your own people whom you even allowed to die because the initial attack was known and orchestrated by your own intelligence and military in order to get exactly the results we have all seen in the last year. And you can complete your tasks of ethnic cleansing and land theft you started in 1947.

Yes you can do all that, with no qualms and no sympathy and no concern at all, because it’s all well within the rules of your own ‘religion’. After all what is the word used to refer to non-Jews again, goy? Feel free to look up some examples from the Talmud what they really think of “goy” and how they are happy to treat them. And if you doubt it just look at what they’ve been doing for the past year.

Out of curiosity I turned on a right wing radio program the other day and heard them talking about Israel. They said things like “We stand with our brothers and sisters in Isreal 100%, they are the only democracy over there, they are the victims of brutal terrorist attacks and anti-semitism and we must stand united. We can’t allow terrorist sympathizers on college campuses or anywhere else to stop us. All terrorists must be hunted down and ended for good. Until then our friends in Israel will not be safe, we are happy to help support their efforts of self-defense.”

When you hear stuff like this you can see why many Americans are brainwashed into thinking Israel is justified in what it’s doing. Oh they are in a war for their survival, they are just protecting themselves, they were the victims, they need to kill all the terrorists so it doesn’t happen again. These are the same people who went all RAH RAH MURICA after 9/11 when Bush went over to the middle east to secure the oil and poppy fields and to depose Saddam. Those terrorists were supposedly Saudis but did he invade Saudi Arabia? Of course not.

Propaganda and emotional appeals are thick and endless. Better use your reason and intelligent discernment to figure out the truth, otherwise you’re a pawn in the Machiavellian games of psychopaths who are happy to use you today and see you killed off tomorrow.

Well, that’s just too bad. The state of Israel and the temple of Jerusalem must be built so the real Christ messiah will make his return, rendering judgment unto murderous idolators and enemies of Israel, I’m sure.

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I appreciate your sarcasm. Unfortunately, that’s what many people believe and they support Israel’s apartheid and genocidal policies. There are also many Jews and Christians and others who oppose them including myself. We need to make our voices heard which is why I started this thread.

…because Buddhism (and Jainism, and Sikhism) is borne from Hinduism, not Judaism or its offshoots.


Hindu Dharma believes that no particular religion is better than another ; all genuine religious paths are facets of Bhagwan’s pure love and light, deserving tolerance and understanding. Hindu Sanatan Dharma not only teaches tolerance for other religions but respect as well.


There are only just over 800,000 genetically-Indian Peoples world-wide… the remainder of the inhabitants of the subcontinent being Southeast-Asians, East-Asians, Middle-Easterners, many Indigenous-Indian untouchable/protected tribes, Southeast-African tribes, Anglo-Indians, and Paleo-Mediterraneans… amongst others.

So ‘alleged’ Indians committing crimes in other countries around the world, may not be Indian at all - I have never heard of any Indians committing the current abhorrent crimes against females, within the Indian community -apart from white-collar crime- so I’m guessing that they are not indigenous-Indians at all, but Middle-Easterners - it’s akin to Africans saying that they are Caribbean, so it looks like Caribbeans are committing all the crime.

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Oh. and…

Israeli Jews are now speaking out against this war against Palestine, in that they did not vote nor support it.

In 1982 when Israël invaded Lebanon, neither Hezbollah nor Hamas existed then. It ended in the massacre of thousands of women children and horses in the Palestinian refugee camps.

The first question out of the gate at the VP debate following Iran’s strike of Israel today is whether they would support a preemptive strike of Iran by Israel. In what sense would it be preemptive? Do they mean in order to beat Iran’s development of a nuclear bomb?

Regardless, it would not be preemptive.

Take “nuclear bomb” out of your minds. Since when does aggression need to equal nuclear bomb before a defensive strike is considered appropriate rather than preemptive?

Once Vance started off with “this is me” rather than answering the question, I tuned out.

Hi Bob. I guess if Iran wasn’t involved in Hitler’s genocide of the Jews …that didn’t really happen… and Hitler was totally justified, because obv the Jews were the aggressors?

@Carleas, never mind. I had muted it and didn’t realize.

I wonder constantly why a woman goes around picking fights. Then I thought, she supports Israel whatever the IDF do, so I suppose that explains it.

You have such a disregard for history and the cause and effect of the centuries of troubles, ignoring the colonisation and conquering of countries and civilizations, the exploitation and manipulation, that you haven’t realised that we’re not the good guys.

The only “good” people were the millions of victims. Shame on us and shame on you for your condoning it.

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Great!

Which part of that is great?