How Christianity emerged

https://www.youtube.com/live/CPzZvkvxNSw?si=hH5AolcSjP9wUxZ2

Bar Kochba was messianic claimant who led an unsuccessful revolt in Jerusalem. After the Bar Kochba Revolt, Hadrian banned all circumcised Jews including circumcised Jewish Christians from Jerusalem. According to Christian historian Eusebius, that led to the first uncircumcised Christian bishop of Jerusalem. Up to the end of second Jewish war, the majority of Christians were Jews. Christianity is not mentioned outside of Christian texts in historical record until this point. This may be the first time that Rome differentiated Christians from Jews. (Nero blaming the fire in Rome on the is a possible exception.) After that Justin Martyr claimed that Christians were the true Jews.

The NT book of Acts is important not because it is necessarily historically accurate, but because of the paucity of information about emergent Christianity.

However, analysis of the evidence is calling into question the traditional dating of Acts to the first century AD.

Acts records the early church’s emergence, including the controversies involved in taking the gospel to the gentiles, and when the Way were first called Christians.

I also like this:

& stuff like it.

While the author of Acts gets many details correct, scholars have noted a few areas where the account might be either inaccurate or inconsistent with other historical or geographical knowledge.

For example, scholars have pointed out that the timeline of events in Acts does not always align with Paul’s letters. For instance, the Jerusalem Council described in Acts 15 seems difficult to reconcile with Paul’s account of his visits to Jerusalem in Galatians 2. Paul describes fewer trips to Jerusalem, which suggests that Acts compresses or alters the sequence of events.

In Acts 16, Paul and Silas are beaten and imprisoned without trial in Philippi. While it’s possible that such abuses happened, Roman citizens like Paul were legally entitled to a trial before punishment. In Acts 22:25-29, Paul asserts his Roman citizenship and avoids punishment, but the earlier failure to invoke his rights seems puzzling. It looks very much like the narrative was simplified or exaggerated events for dramatic effect.

The article mentioned that the placement of Iconium in Phrygia rather than Lycaonia was ultimately confirmed, but there was a long-standing debate about this identification. Ancient sources like Cicero placed Iconium in Lycaonia, and some inscriptions supported this. The author of the Act’s knowledge of shifting regional boundaries may not have been exact during all periods.

While the author of Acts is often praised for using correct local titles (e.g., “politarchs” in Thessalonica, “strategoi” in Philippi), there are instances where some argue that the titles don’t align perfectly with historical evidence. For example, in Acts 13:7, Sergius Paulus is called the “proconsul” of Cyprus. While Cyprus was indeed a senatorial province (thus under a proconsul), some argue that the precise timing of administrative shifts might affect this designation.

Acts tends to depict a heavily Hellenized Eastern Mediterranean world, with Greek culture and language playing dominant roles in cities like Lystra, Philippi, and Corinth. However, scholars argue that local cultures, languages, and practices persisted more strongly in certain regions than Acts implies. For example, Acts 14:11 emphasises that people in Lystra spoke the Lycaonian language, which probably underrepresented the local resistance to Hellenization.

Acts include many accounts of miraculous healings, visions, and supernatural interventions (like the sudden earthquake that frees Paul and Silas from prison in Acts 16:26). From a purely historical-critical perspective, these elements are seen as theological or literary additions rather than literal events.

Scholars also suggest that Acts may overstate the harmony between Jewish and Gentile Christians and the ease with which early Christians navigated relationships with Jewish synagogues and authorities. Paul’s letters describe much more tension and conflict than Acts portrays, especially regarding the issue of Gentile converts following Jewish law (the focus of the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15).

While Acts may demonstrate a remarkable level of geographical, cultural, and political knowledge, there are a few areas where the narrative might simplify, omit, or slightly misrepresent details. Many of these inconsistencies reflect theological or narrative choices rather than outright historical errors, encouraging the view that it was an attempt to suggest a simple development rather than a confusing mixture of various sects with differing theological focal points.

Rather than answer everything, I will say that if they were going to downplay navigating the conflicts surrounding clashing cultures, they should have left out Stephen’s stoning & Saul/Paul’s conversion, preaching in Athens, riot in Ephesus, Paul & Barnabas refusing to be worshipped by the locals, etc etc etc. And they should’ve left out the fact they had to resolve conflict between Paul & the originals due to differing cultural norms between Jews & Greeks/gentiles.

Sometimes a better word than perspective is bias. What if your perspective-bias is wrong & allowing you to interpret fact as fiction for no reason other than your perspective-bias does not permit the supernatural (which nature is, not having always existed, like the Store of Nature). Maybe it isn’t your perspective. Any particular reason you distance yourself from taking one?

I’m biased in favor of just linking you to stuff you will respond to with more of the above. But moreso to saving both of our time. Yw :slight_smile:

Ask yourself why Paul rarely ever quotes teachings of Jesus in any of his letters. Did he not know what Jesus taught in the sermon on the mount? Could it be that his teachings were at variance with those of Jesus? Many of the various Christianity that exist today have theologies integrating the two. But they remain in conflict with each other, which is a testimony to the complexity of the issue as presented in the New Testament.

Paul never tells the story of his name change from Saul to Paul. He never claims to be a Roman citizen. He never states that his differences with Peter and James were resolved. Paul never tells the story of his conversion on the road to Damascus. Indeed, the story of his earliest days as a Christian conflicts with what he says in his letters. Why?

The preponderance of evidence available today shows that early Christianity was not a monolithic movement that Acts portrays it. True, its portrayal is not conflict free. But, all conflicts are resolved in favor of Paul’s mission even to the point of ending the story with Paul preaching his gospel freely despite being imprisoned in Rome. Why does it omit the story of his execution? The implied message is that Rome not Jerusalem is now the center of God’s movement. Indeed, those Jewish Christians who continue to follow the Torah are subsequently condemned as heretics. Given the paucity of archeological and historical support for either text, Acts and the Torah, appear to be origin myths.

The book has been entitled The Acts of the Apostles and yet almost nothing is said about the Twelve except for Peter and Paul. Why? James is shown to be the elder in Jerusalem, whom even Paul defers to. Yet the author doesn’t include him among the 12 and doesn’t tell how he became the elder. Why?

Another interesting story in Acts is that of Simon Magus who is said to convert to Christianity But subsequently was considered the father of gnosticism by the proto-orthodox? What’s going on there? A close reading of Acts evokes more questions than it answers.

Seriously??? This is on purpose.

Seriously. What is on purpose?

Are you intentionally fishing for corrections?

What do you mean?

Nope…. nope!!! I’m not playing.

I’m just asking you to clarify what you mean.

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Keep in mind that the Bible can be read in many modes of interpretation and the historical mode is only one such mode. Others include: the theological, the metaphorical, the literal, the literary, the devotional, the philosophical, the skeptical, the anthropological, apologetical etc. ad infinitum. Reading it one way at any given time doesn’t preclude reading it another way at another.

I suppose you should consider yourself lucky then. If you can’t even get clarity about what the person you’re speaking to means, because that person refuses to clarify, then it’s best for everyone that that person “not play”.

I do have a totally unrelated question. Since we’re playing. Substance, mode, quality. Is that yellow, blue, red? Please don’t bullshit me.

Your question isn’t unrelated. In this context, by “modes” I mean ways of interpreting texts (hermeneutics). So, in this context, I’m attempting to interpret the Bible in its historical and cultural context using critical historical methods in contrast to traditionally religious interretaions.

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The way to [correctly] interpret the Bible has been annotated and disseminated, since its compilation… what do you think the Eastern/Western ‘Rites’ are for…

…dissemination.

“Correctly” according to believers who adhere to it. Otherwise, there’s no consensus about what interpretation is correct. That’s been true of Christians since the protestant Reformation. Luther and other protestant reformers opened up the possibility that individuals could interpret it for themselves. But, academic historians don’t interpret it religiously. Nor do they assume that it is a history book per se. They study it in the context of how it was written, compiled, edited, and canonized and how it reflects the history, culture and beliefs of the people it was written by and for.

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Well, Protestantism did come about because Protestants didn’t want to adhere to the original disseminated-beliefs of the Western rites.

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Indeed… which is why they aren’t doing the disseminating, but those that hold the ‘rites’ to do so are.

Keeping the faith within the Faith, as it were… aha!

Philo was a Greek speaking Alexandrian Jewish middle Platonic philosopher and contemporary of Jesus. He interpreted the Hebrew Bible allegorically in Platonic categories, influenced Paul, the second century Valentinian and Sethian Christians. Philo’s influence on Christianity was far greater than on Rabbinical Judaism.What became known as Gnosticism and anathematized as heresy by the developing catholic church, were a competing theological views about the teachings and significance of Jesus.Whether what became known as Gnosticism was taught by Jesus or not is still a matter of controversy.

There were early Christians, who believed that the God of Jesus was different than the Old Testament God. One of these Christians was Marcion Who agreed with Plato that God must be good— in fact that God was the Good— and the source of all good—the absolute identity of goodness and truth in being itself and thus he could do no evil. Therefore, the God of the Bible who says he creates evil in Isaiah 45:5 could not be the true God. The good God could not create the tree of knowledge of good and evil In the book of Genesis. He wouldn’t create a being that required his punishment. So, the message to the human is “ Don’t be like that god.”

“Adam” means dirt. That’s what this god called Adam. Adam was essentially dust. If you wish to be free, don’t believe that. Tell yourself “I am not this body.” How could you be? You are aware of your body. Your body isn’t aware of you in any immediate way. It is an object not the subject. In the Bhagavad Gita chapter 13 it is called the field. You’re the knower of the field.

The field is not only your immediate body but everything the senses perceive. It is’ as far as you can perceive, nature itself.

But, in the story, upome being created, Dirt is dissatisfied with life almost immediately and the god’s solution is to divide Dirt into two genders, which of course exacerbated the problem. His female counter part is called Eve which we are told means the mother of all living. Really? That would make her a goddess. Right? The couple agrees to disobey the god. It was a set up for failure from the beginning. A blame game.

God curses his children and drives them out of his paradise. Life goes on. They have two sons. One murders the other, competing to please the god. This is the history of religious competition in a nutshell.

Things get worse until the god regrets creating his children altogether. So he decides to drown them. Except for one extended family and two of every kind of animal to start over. This is a god who makes mistakes and doesn’t care how it affects his sentient creations. There’s only one way to find out if nature doesn’t care whether you live or die.Those who claim to remember being dead tell us about it. Common themes seem to resonate with them. The Tibetan monks have organized these into a coherent system by which they guide souls toward dissolution into Nirvana. That light we hear about from those witnesses is the light of pure consciousness which is Being Itself and Eternal Bliss.