On Pornography

Philosophy Forums Psychology and Mind
41

So, Demon, it happens that you can also speak clearly.

This must be the most understandable post I’ve read from you so far.

You’re also the one who approached this topic with the most straightforward answer to the OP.

Pornography instigates an excess of lust.

Pornography creates in our minds a false image of what sexuality is, as the scenes are all stage, and, essentially, fake.

Pornography is a vicious industry ruled by guys who care nothing about he mental health of its “actors” or its fans.

All reasonable points.

I never intended to say porn is an industry which should not be criticized. I asked for scientific data proving it’s harmful to the (male) brain. No scientific data was offered, which leads me to deduce none is available (Google is our best friend these days and such data would be easy to find). Notwithstanding that, you brought about an interesting aspect of the problem: the excess of lust.

Is it good for a man to be that horny? Doesn’t porn exacerbate what is an otherwise healthy sexual instinct? Doesn’t the exaggeration of the scenes show that it’s all about an unattainable fictionalized version of things, an entirely adulterated picture of human sexuality? After all, who’s the woman who stands to be “done” for 50 straight minutes? That’s how not sex works in real life.

But that leads us to something I had written above: porn is fantasy. Porn stimulates the human brain to fantasize. Porn brings to the (male) mind a picture of all the things he can’t do in his monotonous sex life. Porn brings him the hottest girl he can’t ever hope to touch:

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so, is it that despicable? Isn’t it the sexual version of literature or video games? Only, bringing to the lonesome individual a level of satsfaction he could never hope to obtain from literature?

Everything requires moderation.

Of course, amen to that. Addiction is most definitely a problem, but addiction to everything, not only to porn.

One point nobody touched upon here is how porn actually dehumanizes the “performers”, transforming them, especially the women, in nothing more than sexual objects. What could, theoretically, lead the avid consumer to believe that that’s the normal, the acceptable way to treat girls, as sexual objects. But, again, there’s no available data to succesfully connect porn with violence against women. The girls who do it, objectified as they may be, do it for pleasure and for money, they’re not forced to do it. So, a deeper question would be: is it healthy for the male mind to have that notion of people as being essentially sex toys, to be used and discarded after use? Isn’t that what porn tells us we all are, sex toys? Like a visual realization of De Sade’s grim vision on humanity?

That’s why I’d never justify an irrational defense of porn, without considering its drawbacks. That’s why I have always avoided becoming addicted to it, either. I see all the problems with it, I just tend to think that its advantages are more numerous than its drawbacks.

And contrary to what Futureone says, I don’t believe one necessarily “gives up” on porn after becoming an adult. How many people actually watch porn in this world? I’d bet on billions. Are all these people who refuse to grow? Surely not. There are all types of people, married and single, black and white, young or old. It’s definitely not a black or white topic, as we can’t possibly hope that a grown up man will simply give up on porn after marrying.

Porn literacy. That’s another way of saying: understand before criticizing. That’s a much saner attitude than simply turning it into a taboo. Because taboos are made to be challenged, and challenging them is as pleasurable to a male brain as a sex scene.

42

He has it backwards.

Testosterone creates an excess of energies. The excess of energies fuels lust. All forms of lust are an excess, an excess of energies. Lust in of itself is an excess, so excess lust is an excess of an excess.

People seek pornography to quell, or “release” them from excess energy buildup.

He has it backwards again. Any healthy male of good genetics and culture is able to extrapolate data from their environment, forming a beautiful ideal picturesque picture of a woman in their minds, without ever looking at porn. By just seeing women of average looks, and using their imagination to upgrade by extrapolating data, using their brains. I know this because, I used to be hyper-sexual long before I ever watched any porns.

So what is my opinion on porn? I kind of like it. But it is lame. 2D. Not real. It is like that Blade Runner 2049 scene of a fake digital female. Its similar to ASMR videos, they are not real, they are just used to cope.

So my opinion of porn is… it is able to satisfy curiosity. Sexual curiosity is the most powerful curiosity, same as Science curiosity. Without it people would be ignorant. But some say ignorance is bliss. It is kind of like a carrot on a stick, if people cannot access porn, it is like they are always chasing that carrot, and they are always within Mystery. Otherwise they are Enlightened and then reach sobriety.

Masturbation is like breathing. A buildup and then release. Asexuals are similar to AI. AI does not breathe. There is something human about breathing, intrinsic to our humanity.

43

We can surely use our imagination, and I gotta say, sometimes it’s much preferable to the crudeness of porn. Also, porn rarely satisfies my imagination entirely, I often feel there’s no porn which can reflect the fantasies I myself create in my mind.

But porn can be a catalyst to fantasies, nonetheless.

It’s good for you that you actually don’t need it. But you’re only one, there are many others who do, that’s my point. We can choose to either ostracize these others or try and understand them.

44

Unfortunately, the English language is quite straightforward. :neutral_face: It’s not capable of expressing all the nuances, subtleties, and layered meanings you can find in, say, the Russian language. That’s the root issue. And only after that comes the problem of ChatGPT (which I use as a translator) — meaning, the issue lies with the corrupt developers :smiling_face_with_horns: who deliberately embedded algorithms that distort meaning and make real understanding harder.

The problem isn’t how Demon sees things — it’s the inability to communicate those things clearly to the average user through this system.

There are a few fundamental problems at the core of existence — and these problems always leak into more specific issues we face every day. One of the biggest is Power :classical_building: — which is basically a system of prohibitions followed by temporary “permissions” or indulgences, granted for the benefit of those who imposed the bans in the first place.

This is where pornography comes in. It’s outlawed or restricted in legislation :scroll:, yet simultaneously tolerated or even promoted — and here’s the kicker: the government itself funds the porn industry from the public budget. :money_with_wings::laptop:

But it’s not just funding — porn ends up laundering that money right back into the pockets of officials, police, and the ruling elite. :briefcase::money_bag::man_police_officer:

If you ask, “Why?” and “Who benefits?” — the trail leads straight to the top. To Power.

Because porn serves the government’s interests in multiple ways:

  1. :performing_arts: It distracts the population from real issues.
  2. :baby::right_arrow::chart_decreasing: It helps reduce population growth.
  3. :receipt::money_with_wings: It provides an easy pipeline for money laundering.
  4. :video_game::television: It gives them a tool to manipulate both the consumers of porn and the people involved in producing it.
1 Like
45

watch from 1.40 Billy Hayes with his girlfriend

The closest I can think of is the very powerful scene late in Midnight Express.

Billy can barely speak, muttering half phrases, obsessed with seeing Susan’s breasts. She obliges, although watching Billy masturbate to the sight of her breasts like a monkey in the zoo, brings her to tears as she realizes how broken he is.

Perhaps not “positive” exactly, but the only remotely moving masturbation scene in cinema history that I can think of.

and how important this action was for Billy to regain his “drive” to SURVIVE.

46

So, are you pro or against porn, after all?

47

So, Demon, it’s the use of ChatGPT that makes you sound like a bot sometimes.

I’m really curious about this. What are your sources? Are you talking about the USA or about Russia?

48

So, unlike erotic scenes in a movie, pornography generally involves a power dynamic and a distortion of the reality around the body and sexuality.

I think one should strive to protect the human body for the temple that it is. Sexuality can be beautiful, spiritual and fulfilling and add to the bond between two people.

This aspect is often forgotten in today’s society and instant gratification from anyone, anywhere, any time is largely acceptable and without question or involvement.

Mr Authoritarian

I would argue women objectify themselves and then cry foul on the men pretending themselves to be the victims while being payed heavily for their exploits.

Does your disdain for females in pornography spill over to men with men also being paid heavily for their exploits.

49

Pornography and general sexual degeneracy is a societal poison, so effective that they’ve made it (relatively) “free”.

That alone should signal how bad it is to even the lower IQs.

Only the cultural “Rightwing” can protect children and teenagers from it, and even they don’t do it well. Amish and Mennonites have a huge problem with their men and teenage boys getting access to the internet by smart phones, and then becoming consumed by pornography. So the issue severely affects even the Luddites.

50

I’m going to really surprise you. The main source of human understanding is reason. That means we need to abandon belief and apply logic — and you’ll uncover the facts.

In favor of the idea that the government funds pornography, bloggers, YouTube, social media, musicians, performers, and cultural figures, there’s one main factor: all this fluff distracts the population from urgent, real problems. “Bread and circuses” — that’s the essence of what people truly want.

That’s why the government funds the “circuses,” so it can cut costs on the bread — on people’s actual well-being.

Just think about it: how much does the internet cost? The launch and maintenance of satellites, stations, millions of kilometers of cables? Mountains of equipment. The salaries of the huge number of staff who maintain internet communications.

And here’s the point — the internet doesn’t pay for itself at all. Neither does the porn industry. It merely launders the budget money and redirects it into the pockets of the officials who allocate those funds.

51

You should really reflect on levels of thinking instead of asking childish questions like “what’s good” and “what’s bad.”

The higher level is the thinking of the Universe. The Universe thinks in terms of expediency — it doesn’t use categories like “good” or “bad.”

That’s why its agents — state authorities — also have no need for pitiful judgments of “good” or “bad.” Power is forced to follow the thinking of God (the Universe). So think about it.

Is population reduction (as a result of pornography) good or bad?
Oh right — what criteria of expediency should we appeal to?

If the level of consciousness is lower than the level of technological progress, the civilization destroys itself. That means physical elimination of the population is necessary in order to limit that very level of progress.

Simple? Yes. But is it understandable to animals who are genetically incapable of thinking beyond “good” and “bad”?

52

While not officially classified as a mental health disorder in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), many healthcare professionals view it as a behavioural addiction, similar to substance abuse disorders.

The International Classification of Diseases (ICD-11) describes compulsive sexual behaviour disorder (CSBD) as persistent, repetitive sexual impulses or behaviours that interfere with daily functioning.

Porn addiction means persistent use, even when it harms mental health, relationships and daily life.

Porn addiction doesn’t happen in isolation. It often emerges from underlying emotional issues like loneliness, depression, anxiety, low self-esteem, or unresolved trauma.

53

One of the good posts Ichthus77 made (she does make some good ones every now and then) was talking about how both imagination and the real can be an austerity. If someone is 100% imagination and no real, = austerity. Someone 100% real and no imagination, = austerity.

Should be closer to 50/50

as i said its about sobriety. i already “seen the movie” meanwhile someone who has never seen the movie will have Mystery and want to see the movie. I already solved the mystery so its not the same as someone who is curious about it.

People who want to ban porn are basically those who already had their fair share, got bored of it and then want to deny it for everybody else.

54

“Porn and brain.” People complain about porn and brain, meanwhile ignore other things that probably effect the brain much more. For example I feel that computer work has turned me into a giganerd young sheldon autist. i already was a nerd young sheldon autist but now i feel more so, i already felt rarely wanting to socialize with normies and now i have become a gigagenius wanting to socialize even less with normies.

Like when i work at the computer i start to get adhd and can’t even focus on what i’m doing and feel absent minded. more absent minded than marijuana and i dont even remember what i was doing a minute ago. the type of work i do i would recommend to have 175 iq and even AI is not smart enough to do it, except i do not have 175 iq actually. If someone had 175 iq they might be able to do the work perfectly fine and not get distracted or airheaded like i do.

more than the air-headedness i also get depressed and gloomy when i work, i get distracted and start to dwell on all the people that let me down and they are like ghosts that haunt me, like a cartoon episode where the protagonist is told a bunch of gloomy and insulting things to keep them down and depressed.

then there’s also neck pains i have a special pillow to help but even then i get some neck pains after a fews hour or so. i have no clue how anybody is able to work full time at computer-jobs. our entire society is a farce, if working part-time doesn’t get me enough money to escape inceldom then so beit, i will rather die an incel than work full-time to get some wife who is only with me for my money and work ethic. and also then stuck having to raise kids and pay child support. i am already too busy everyday for that

the joke is probably on society besides, there will probably be robot wives of high quality. right now the robot wives are uncanny and i dont find them appealing. VR might be a better route but there is no haptics. or there is just 2D porn

as for masturbation what i wanted to say earlier. In ancient times, “normal” people didn’t masturbate, masturbation was reserved for slaves. in modern society almost everyone are metaphorical slaves. In ancient society sex was something that someone “does” to a person, like an act of sex, therefore penetrative and masculine. The “normal men” in ancient society would have heterosexual and homosexual sex, but always as top, being a top was a symbol of status. masturbation was only for slaves and the lower class. But since everyone in modern society are metaphorical slaves or lower class, then you might as well have porn to go with it. Whenever someone makes an argument that “porn is not natural” they don’t factor into consideration how our society is already not natural compared to natural societies.

55

Yes, Bob, addiction is always bad, even to ILP, but I was referring to “normal” guys, who use porn more as another type of entertainment than as a drug. The average porn user, that is.

56

I see what you mean, the government doesn’t literally “fund” porn, it only allows porn to freely exist, regardless of the harm it may do to the average “consumers”.

In this sense, you’re right, those in power will allow anything that keep people satisfied and contented. But it’s a two way road, that’s what the “people” want from their governments too: bread (food) and circuses (entertainment, distraction from real problems). The “people” don’t demand much in terms of satisfaction, and they’re easily pacified with a minimum of anything. “They” don’t want to think much, and the government doesn’t want “them” to think much either, so both parties end up happy in the process.

We’re, as thinkers, are the exception to the rule, Demon.

I can see all the implications of porn. I will not deny it has its uses. But I’m far from being totally numbed by it.

57

No, I’m talking about real financial resources. You can’t deny that those in power fund the media, not just bribe “corrupt” journalists, commentators, editors, and other workers. The porn industry is the same as the media, just in a different form, more accessible for understanding, almost at the level of instincts. The main goals of porn are to reduce the population and distract from pressing issues. And these goals align with the objectives of those in power.

58

I believe that there is more loneliness, depression, anxiety, low self-esteem, and unresolved trauma around than we understand. That is why, after an initial curiosity fades, habit takes over and slowly, addiction.

All addiction starts as a “friend” giving a dopamine boost, if not more, but slowly it occupies the mind, and the only true test of addiction is at least seven weeks of abstinence. If it doesn’t leave you alone, you’re hooked.

59

You don’t need to “believe”, Bob, you can be 100% sure of that. The amount of depressed and traumatized people around us is shocking. Futureone himself has given an example some posts above yours. That’s why porn becomes an easy escape valve. Because, contrary to what we would like to believe, there’s NO simple solution to the sea of dissatisfaction out there. Once again, better use porn than go around raping random women on the streets.

Yes, you obviously understand addiction deeply. But from my own personal experience I can assure you: one can use porn and not get addicted to it. For me it’s like Hollywood or comic books. Entertainment. But I could give up on it entirely tomorrow and never feel any side-effects.

60

Still open to debate. I think the governments simply, and conveniently, tolerate porn.

Now, here’s what I’d call a broad, rational, take on porn and a much discussed aspect of its liberation in today’s world:

Do You Want to Tell the Government You Watch Porn?

States want to collect information about adults’ porn use. Are we OK wih that?

Posted June 13, 2024 | [ Reviewed by Gary Drevitch

More than half of all Americans live in states that now (or by year’s end) will require them to prove they’re adults in order to access most legal porn sites.

How can you prove you’re a grownup? By uploading your driver’s license, passport, mortgage or employment record.

Raise your hand if you want to share that kind of data with the government—in the context of watching porn, no less.

article continues after advertisement

For decades, I’ve been saying that minors should not watch porn. However, preventing adults from watching it in order to protect kids is, as Mark Twain said about censorship, “telling a man he can’t have a steak just because a baby can’t chew it.”

And let’s be honest (which censors rarely are): The goal here is not protecting kids. Comprehensive sex education would do that, but anti-porn activists, of course, are against it. Besides, these age verification laws won’t protect kids anyway. For starters, half of all kids use VPNs to disguise their location when browsing the internet. (If you don’t know what a VPN is, ask your kid.) But for both minors and adults, the number using VPNs will rise as these state laws multiply.

New Law, New Problems

There are other problems with these heavy-handed proposals from tech-deaf state legislatures:

  • They don’t cover social media platforms, where children are most likely to come across adult content accidentally. In fact, the new laws encourage the growth of free and pirated X-rated content on social media.
  • They will stimulate the use of rogue porn websites that don’t require age verification.
  • As part of a legislative power grab, these laws are deliberately vague. How is “harmful to minors” defined? Giving government the power to make subjective judgements about what’s “indecent” has always been an invitation for overreach.
  • Sending sensitive data such as digitized government IDs will create a Golden Age of data breaches to be exploited by criminals.
  • And, of course, the Supreme Court has already struck down the Communications Decency Act of 1997 requiring age verification software as an unconstitutional content-based restriction on speech.

A Solution

Parental controls and device-level filters are effective tools if parents and schools are willing to use them. And yet most parents and schools don’t, even though they’re now quite easy to manage. There are many popular cartoons about parents asking their kids to show them how to use the filtering features on their devices.

This technology puts power where it should be: in the hands of parents and caregivers. The porn industry itself actually makes this easier by using the “Restricted to Adults” (RTA) label on its sites and platforms. Created by the nonprofit Association of Sites Advocating Child Protection, it standardizes a universally recognizable digital tag for adult material that allows it to be automatically blocked by device-level parental control and filtering software.

Is it a perfect solution? No. Is it better than what most parents and crusaders are doing? Absolutely.

Here’s another idea: Parents should talk with their kids about porn. Not just, “Porn is garbage, you better not watch it”; that’s not a conversation, that’s an invitation to tune out. Rather, an actual exchange of perspectives, a sharing of ideas, maybe mom or dad being curious and asking questions, inspiring Junior’s curiosity as well.

Of course, you can’t (or shouldn’t) talk to kids about porn without talking about sex. Since porn is a problematic topic for a first parent-child conversation about sex, parents should talk to their kids about sex now, setting the stage for a subsequent talk (or two or three) about porn soon after.

Newfangled Internet of the 90s

In the 1990s, as the newfangled internet was conquering America, various tech-clueless state legislators tried to prevent material they deemed “harmful to minors” from being “internetted” into their states. I was involved in lawsuits in New York, Arizona, and Michigan which ultimately overturned these new laws.

At the time, filtering software was developed to help parents, schools, and others limit what anyone could access on a given computer. The software was rudimentary, grabbing breast-cancer self-exams, Congressmember Dick Armey, gay rights, and gynecology textbooks in its net. It was touted as better than nothing, but most parents, schools, and churches didn’t use it.

The software has changed dramatically. Parents, schools, and churches haven’t; many complain about porn on the internet, but can’t be bothered to block it on their kids’ devices. Of the many teens who report seeing online pornography during the school day, a shocking 44% say they’ve seen it on a school-issued device.

Age verification is the newest front in the War on Sex that’s been going on since this country’s founding. It has succeeded in criminalizing birth control (even for married couples), mixed-race marriages (only legalized in 1967), sending sex toys through the mail (only legalized in 1986), and teaching accurate sex-ed information in most American schools. You may not want to watch porn, but when the government is empowered to control it, it strengthens their ability and resolve to control what you do want to do.

Some 20 states have already declared porn a public health hazard, based on a narrative of danger and harm with little basis in reality. But which porn users in their right minds are going to stand up and say, “I’m mad as hell, and I’m not going to take it anymore”?

By Marty Klein, P.h.D.